Author Topic: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?  (Read 892 times)

Offline anya

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2020, 02:44:02 PM »
That is true, but what purp said is also true. It’s really an Apocalypse (and betsy) solo and no one else is important or useful or necessary to the story. They could all be switched out for other characters (even Betsy.)

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2020, 02:28:22 PM »
The current state of entertainment is sad right now. I really worry about all of it going forward. It doesn't seem like it's going to get any better for a while. It's also why I worry about a Disney Gambit show/movie. What are they going to do to him so that he's not "problematic"?

It worries me too. Only the rumors of a “Han Solo type” being sought out for the role give me hope.

I’ve never seen Gambit’s flirtatious ways as problematic. TBBT early seasons’ Howard was problematic. His character was played for laughs but came off as creepy and repulsive. Remember clown pants Gambit, described by the (progressive feminist) writer as skeevy, who tried giving out massages and was rejected?
That isn’t Gambit. Gambit is a suave, handsome guy who makes women swoon. He’s not misleading in his intentions. He would be a creep if he was rejected but isn’t, women find him devilishly charming and are all over him.


I've seen this compliant several times, that Gambit flirts (oh how dare he) even when he's with Rogue, but as always, they never go into details on this, they can't list a single title, vol. or issue number, no quotes or show any images proving any of it. Asking for details and you'll either get none or just barely a handful of pitiful examples with no context. It's just all this vague talk or their lying there asses off, many of these websites are written by people (mostly males) who've never had a girlfriend or even been out on a date in there life, inadequate self-conscious losers, but they want to act like experts on such things. If one actually takes the time to read the comics, you'll see that Gambit is one of the best things to ever happen to Rogue. Nobody really cares for CBR anymore, they only make those kinds of articles for clicks, don't give them any.

I’ve been rereading a lot of old X-Men comics (because I’m so not interest in anything coming out) and Gambit solos as well. Honestly Layman’s solo is worse than I remembered. Remy was called out on flirting while having a girlfriend (“that mutie-cutie with the streak in her hair”) by a supporting character. And this book is also responsible for that horrible Lili Penrose incident that led to the supposed sex tape, which is number one (and only) evidence that Gambit is a cheating scumbag, even though the content on the tape was never clarified. All in all, Gambit has never been written cheating on Rogue. The few instances I recall him having flings were when he and Rogue were on one of their hundreds breaks. Gambit is supposed to be a ladies’ man but has never been much of it. I mean, except for Rogue, he hasn’t had any significant love interest within the X-Men (maybe because he was paired up with Rogue really early and it stuck. I would’ve enjoyed him having a relationship with some other X-woman, for a change). Also he’s been married twice. Some scoundrel.

As to the thread question, it doesn’t matter in which book Gambit is, he won’t be back to being the character he was in the past. I don’t like the X-Men’s current state and haven’t for years, I’m tired of hoping against hope. Even if we got a new writer who loves and understands what makes Gambit work as a character, the inadequacy of editors and Marvel as a whole would harm a possible solo book. I don't think there are writers right now that would make a terrific job with the character in any of the current books. I think Gambit coming to the MCU will be a game-changer. For better or worse, the Gambit that debuts in the MCU will be the Gambit will be getting for a long time.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 02:34:44 PM by andresa »

Offline Varia

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2020, 07:54:31 PM »
I’ve been rereading a lot of old X-Men comics (because I’m so not interest in anything coming out) and Gambit solos as well. Honestly Layman’s solo is worse than I remembered. Remy was called out on flirting while having a girlfriend (“that mutie-cutie with the streak in her hair”) by a supporting character. And this book is also responsible for that horrible Lili Penrose incident that led to the supposed sex tape, which is number one (and only) evidence that Gambit is a cheating scumbag, even though the content on the tape was never clarified. All in all, Gambit has never been written cheating on Rogue. The few instances I recall him having flings were when he and Rogue were on one of their hundreds breaks. Gambit is supposed to be a ladies’ man but has never been much of it. I mean, except for Rogue, he hasn’t had any significant love interest within the X-Men (maybe because he was paired up with Rogue really early and it stuck. I would’ve enjoyed him having a relationship with some other X-woman, for a change). Also he’s been married twice. Some scoundrel.


I agree with a lot of what you said.


The sex tape thing was an absolute mess for several reasons. First of all, it IS the only evidence we have of Gambit "cheating" on Rogue. Second of all, the entire incident felt as if it happened because of this perception that men are incapable of refusing sex when it's offered by a hot chick no matter what the circumstances or whether they actually like her or not ("I may be homo sapian superior, but I am still only human" or whatever the line was). Another instance I felt like the writers were the scumbags rather than Gambit, especially because it actually seems to be played as an unmitigated triumph that he succeeded in getting away with it and snowing Rogue???

I have my own thoughts about Rogue and Gambit's "Relationship rules" before she got control of her powers. I can't claim it's totally backed up in the comics but there were some moments, particularly in XXM, that signaled to me that things may not have been so black and white with them in the past and there might have been some discussion and "agreements" made.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 07:59:55 PM by Varia »

Offline RomeoSvengali

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2020, 06:42:49 PM »
We should make a comparison list with Gambit and others, when it comes to those who are a ladies' man, who have cheated and betrayed the team and see where Gambit ranks on that.
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Offline Toadman005

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2020, 10:18:05 AM »
Always viewed Gambit as a flirt, and a man that COULD pull any chick he wanted, but, didn't...as in he was very exclusive. Which makes him better than say, Tony Stark. s***, Wolverine's had more confirmed sexual partners than Gambit.
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Offline Varia

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2020, 12:52:49 PM »
Always viewed Gambit as a flirt, and a man that COULD pull any chick he wanted, but, didn't...as in he was very exclusive. Which makes him better than say, Tony Stark. s***, Wolverine's had more confirmed sexual partners than Gambit.

Yep! He's comfortable with his libido; he controls it, it does not control him.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 01:54:11 PM by Varia »

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2020, 10:18:51 AM »
The sex tape thing was an absolute mess for several reasons. First of all, it IS the only evidence we have of Gambit "cheating" on Rogue. Second of all, the entire incident felt as if it happened because of this perception that men are incapable of refusing sex when it's offered by a hot chick no matter what the circumstances or whether they actually like her or not ("I may be homo sapian superior, but I am still only human" or whatever the line was). Another instance I felt like the writers were the scumbags rather than Gambit, especially because it actually seems to be played as an unmitigated triumph that he succeeded in getting away with it and snowing Rogue???


I agree that it speaks volumes about the writers rather than the character. On the other hand, female writers like Lui and Thompson wrote Gambit as (too) nice and devoted.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2020, 02:27:43 PM »

I agree that it speaks volumes about the writers rather than the character. On the other hand, female writers like Lui and Thompson wrote Gambit as (too) nice and devoted.


I agree with your comments spot on 100%. My only issue with this one is, I feel Liu had little choice. I agree, her Gambit is too nice...but, I think she rehabilitated his character quite a bit, she clearly understood him and his relationship with other characters, and she respected the character's fans. Yes, he was too soft. I felt this more a problem in her X title, than X23, where he was meant to be a mentor, but, she the main character...basically, he couldn't outshine her....bt still, her take on him was the best one (IMO) we've gotten in ...a decade, save maybe Amus.
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Offline Varia

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2020, 02:41:29 PM »

I agree that it speaks volumes about the writers rather than the character. On the other hand, female writers like Lui and Thompson wrote Gambit as (too) nice and devoted.


It basically boils down to balancing the various traits that make the character humanly complex. Difficult, maybe, particularly if someone has more interest in other characters... but not impossible.

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2020, 07:29:10 PM »

I agree with your comments spot on 100%. My only issue with this one is, I feel Liu had little choice. I agree, her Gambit is too nice...but, I think she rehabilitated his character quite a bit, she clearly understood him and his relationship with other characters, and she respected the character's fans. Yes, he was too soft. I felt this more a problem in her X title, than X23, where he was meant to be a mentor, but, she the main character...basically, he couldn't outshine her....bt still, her take on him was the best one (IMO) we've gotten in ...a decade, save maybe Amus.


Agreed. I actually loved seeing Gambit in X-23, his big brother role, how the two of them bonded, how he called Wolverine out on not being there for Laura. Yeah, he was soft and sweet but he was also badass. Can’t say the same about Liu’s X-Men run, though. Gambit was barely there and his relationship with Cecilia Reyes was boring, they had nothing in common. Missed opportunity because Liu is a Gambit fan and she had a good grasp on him.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2020, 09:12:42 AM »

Agreed. I actually loved seeing Gambit in X-23, his big brother role, how the two of them bonded, how he called Wolverine out on not being there for Laura. Yeah, he was soft and sweet but he was also badass. Can’t say the same about Liu’s X-Men run, though. Gambit was barely there and his relationship with Cecilia Reyes was boring, they had nothing in common. Missed opportunity because Liu is a Gambit fan and she had a good grasp on him.


Agreed. Him losing a fight to Mystique, him refusing to even fight Bobby because it was pointless, doing nothing of note...disappointing. I did enjoy his diner issue with Wolverine though. I actually used to tweet with Liu years ago, about Gambit or Game of Thrones...she was very polite.
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Offline purplevit

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2020, 11:01:51 AM »

Agreed. Him losing a fight to Mystique, him refusing to even fight Bobby because it was pointless, doing nothing of note...disappointing. I did enjoy his diner issue with Wolverine though. I actually used to tweet with Liu years ago, about Gambit or Game of Thrones...she was very polite.


Mystique fight wan`t very good but he still had his swag. He knew that she arrived not to kill or attack and showed it.


Against Iceman with Dark Seed he has no options where everything is cowered with snow. He also had great moment when he told how he defeated his death persona and when noticed Iceman while Karma weren`t aware. I liked Liu`s Gambit in AXM. He was cool but only supportive. He was a leader of a reason.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2020, 12:40:06 PM »
What I find as amusing, is the sentiment that Liu was soft in regards to Gambit -
Love interest? And a few cool action sequences. -

Doesn't that sound familiar? *cough* Thompson *cough* Same thing.

Excalibur just amplifies the horrible treatment of Gambit. IMO

edit: the difference between Liu and Thompson, Gambit did get some story with Liu. He was looked up to, he mentored and was actually a useful member of the team. Not just support.

edit again: Liu would have used Rogue, but wasn't allowed. She wrote a romy story that was published in a collection of Xmen stories. She had a far better handle on the relationship than one would think.

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2020, 01:23:44 PM »
He also had great moment when he told how he defeated his death persona and when noticed Iceman while Karma weren`t aware. I liked Liu`s Gambit in AXM. He was cool but only supportive. He was a leader of a reason.


Do you know in which issue that happened? I don't remember that.


edit again: Liu would have used Rogue, but wasn't allowed. She wrote a romy story that was published in a collection of Xmen stories. She had a far better handle on the relationship than one would think.


Didn't Liu say she didn't like Gambit's relationship with Rogue or I'm remembering wrong? There wasn't enough Gambit in that book, and he was vocal about loving Rogue. Wasn't a fan. 

Offline purplevit

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2020, 01:32:04 PM »
Don't remeber issue. It was just a panel or two.
Remy told that he remembered people that he loved and suddenly it was enough to put Deathbit back so Iceman should try the same. Orsmt like that.


It was rifgt before Iceman arrived and Gambit refused to fight him.