GambitGuild
Gambit => Gambit => Topic started by: andresa on December 14, 2018, 06:14:37 AM
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From Mr. and Mrs. X #7
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/e3267df78de18005147ddca2947b2769/tumblr_pjpj8jPPx31qg5s5d_1280.jpg)(https://66.media.tumblr.com/85604f3816ce94bd4ecab94758ede181/tumblr_pjpj8hNkIr1qg5s5d_1280.jpg)(https://66.media.tumblr.com/6d5cefa17f1eec203587c93bd702ca45/tumblr_pjpj8iDRjT1qg5s5d_1280.jpg)(https://66.media.tumblr.com/3332bac88cc215471d7964cba3c25ab9/tumblr_pjpj8hJYck1qg5s5d_1280.jpg)
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I thought it be best to put this thread where it should be. Thanks andresa for the images.
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Ok, thanks, Neko. I never know when I should open a new thread.
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You are good. Its a good thing for an upcoming issue. Thank You.
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Fun previews. Oscar can draw a great black costume.
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Issue 7 I suppose.
Always wanted to see Gambit using charged knout to make explosions.
(https://community.cbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75322&d=1545695645)
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The whip action is pretty cool. Of course, as he is beating up no names again, I can only imagine someone of note will come and kick his ass again. Spiral maybe! I kid of course. I am hopeful they will give him a win against someone of importance this time.
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Good eyes, I couldn't tell if that was a whip.
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I guess a whip would be fairly interesting. The end snap of a charged whip should be enough to level a small building, or cut a tree in half! I dig... But it could also be a rope, so...
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Wasn't a whip, just the aftermath of standard explosion. This was a decent issue I guess. Not a huge fan of Mojo and looks like more Rogue development is coming so nothing here that really excites me as a Gambit fan.
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Sad it wasn't a knout(
I hope Gambit will fight Spiral or Longshot next issue. Fingers crossed for both, of course.
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Step 1: Start an arc with all the right cues, some witty banter and back and forth.
Step 2: Toss in a fight scene with either a ton of goons or a B lister at best.
Step 3: Dangle a little bit of angst.
Step 4: Marginalize Gambit somehow.
Step 5: ????
Step 6: Let Rogue pull out the win at the end of the arc while Gambit sits back and claps politely.
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
I'm really trying to like this guys, I really am. I appreciate the call-backs and the wittiness from time to time, but after each arc is basically becoming the same thing with different dressing, I'm just getting exhausted. There are little gimmicks here and there to keep Gambit fans interested, but it's beginning to feel like that's all they are.
Spiral made a reference to how Rogue's vitals look different than what they remembered... wellllllll according to the last issue of Asmus' run, Gambit's should too.
So Magneto last issue, Longshot next issue...
Does Gambit have any old flames other than Belladonna that can show up?
It's kinda sad that I already started off with low expectations for this series, but I still held out hope that the arcs would be balanced in some way. I've gone from being excited to get the emails about the issues to now feeling ambivalent and wondering what I'll get this time, especially after this latest ending.
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Lol, someone paying attention to Gambit continuity from Asmus? Please! Continuity only matters when it is pushes Rogue's narrative.
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I'll be picking up the book today. I'll be able to chime in then. Looking forward to it.
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I liked the issue. It was mad fun. The Moonlighting reference was great. I'm old enough to remember when it was on the air and in syndication. I used that comparison for what the book could have been like even before the debut. I'm surprised that KTs Mojo was as good as it was. I will say that the issue was wordy, but that's typical of her style from what I can tell.
I'm not sure what the problem is with KT using Rogue's powers as a subplot is. She didn't rebreak the character. Why not play with it? As for Longshot, why not? I've always wanted him and Gambit to interact more. Maybe a one-shot of them out on the town all Wedding Crashers. Mind you, before Gambit got married. I don't get the comparison to Magneto. She and Longshot were never a thing. She had a crush on him. Gambit's kissed half the female X-Men cast, I mean what do you want?
Outside of strange nit picks, the book was good. Enjoyed it a lot.
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I liked the issue. It was mad fun. The Moonlighting reference was great. I'm old enough to remember when it was on the air and in syndication. I used that comparison for what the book could have been like even before the debut. I'm surprised that KTs Mojo was as good as it was. I will say that the issue was wordy, but that's typical of her style from what I can tell.
I'm not sure what the problem is with KT using Rogue's powers as a subplot is. She didn't rebreak the character. Why not play with it? As for Longshot, why not? I've always wanted him and Gambit to interact more. Maybe a one-shot of them out on the town all Wedding Crashers. Mind you, before Gambit got married. I don't get the comparison to Magneto. She and Longshot were never a thing. She had a crush on him. Gambit's kissed half the female X-Men cast, I mean what do you want?
Outside of strange nit picks, the book was good. Enjoyed it a lot.
I never liked Mojo the dude is too goofy for the X-Men he'd be better served as a Deadpool, i skiped most stuff he is involved in and Spiral i dont know what the big deal is about her, i mean wasnt Mojo dead and there was a Mojo 2 even worse than him , didn't Dazzler and Longshot win the rebellion or some crap, and wasn't Spiral a hero and part of Storm's X-Force????? so many questions.
I am begining to think though that maybe KT doesnt have access to some better Villains like in the letters page someone asked about Sinister showing up and was given the usual answer that means NO but he gets to show up in that crap Iceman short
sorry rant over
I like the action in it Gambit trowing the cards without even looking and them hitting the mark is cool AF, Nice callback at the end with Longshot, what with Rogue having a crush on him and all many moons ago, its a very easy read , i liked Gambit in it, but the book still bugs me, it doesnt have long term written all over it and yet again she did the fake out death of a character this time Gambit instead of Rogue
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I liked the issue. It was mad fun. The Moonlighting reference was great. I'm old enough to remember when it was on the air and in syndication. I used that comparison for what the book could have been like even before the debut. I'm surprised that KTs Mojo was as good as it was. I will say that the issue was wordy, but that's typical of her style from what I can tell.
I'm not sure what the problem is with KT using Rogue's powers as a subplot is. She didn't rebreak the character. Why not play with it? As for Longshot, why not? I've always wanted him and Gambit to interact more. Maybe a one-shot of them out on the town all Wedding Crashers. Mind you, before Gambit got married. I don't get the comparison to Magneto. She and Longshot were never a thing. She had a crush on him. Gambit's kissed half the female X-Men cast, I mean what do you want?
Outside of strange nit picks, the book was good. Enjoyed it a lot.
Usually I think that your reviews are more or less exactly how book should be described.
I think Mags in issue 6 just kinda killed excitement for me for this book. MMX 7 was first issue that I wasn't excited to read. I read it. It was fine. Fun issue with good action. It wasn't deep. My favorite character just got killed and I didn't even care.
At this point I think Gambit will shine in MMX 8 as he shined in MMX 3 and then Rogue will save the day at the end of arc again.
I hope it will be different. MMX is the only book with Gambit. I want to be excited for all new issues. I hope MMX 8 will change the way I see MMX.
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Yeah, his death didn't bother me at all because I know how the Mojoverse works. So it wasnt a big deal, and I don't think it's supposed to effect us. And no, the issue wasnt deep at all, but again, it's Mojo. Only going to go so far.
Mojos out of place antics doesn't fit the XMen at all, which I think is the point, right? To be honest, I think Deadpool would enjoy the Mojoverse, which makes him less useful. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with Spiral either. I had the same question, but Mojo did say something along the lines of making her inconsequential again, it may have had something to do with that?
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Usually I think that your reviews are more or less exactly how book should be described.
I think Mags in issue 6 just kinda killed excitement for me for this book. MMX 7 was first issue that I wasn't excited to read. I read it. It was fine. Fun issue with good action. It wasn't deep. My favorite character just got killed and I didn't even care.
At this point I think Gambit will shine in MMX 8 as he shined in MMX 3 and then Rogue will save the day at the end of arc again.
I hope it will be different. MMX is the only book with Gambit. I want to be excited for all new issues. I hope MMX 8 will change the way I see MMX.
I completely agree with all of this. I'm actually not entirely convinced that Rogue even loves Remy, I voiced this exact same opinion in CBR appreciation thread a few weeks ago and got some interesting very insightful responses. How does she express her endearment towards him, by not running from him (but still not trusting him)?? I'm close to the point of just reading this book because it's the only thing that Gambit's in. I really wanted to like Romy in this because I haven't enjoyed reading the relationship in comics in truly a long time (Xtreme Xmen) but this seems like a Rogue solo where Remy is just a secondary character. I'm trying to stick with it because I know once MMX ends there's a big chance that Gambit will once again go years before being featured in another comic.
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Yeah, his death didn't bother me at all because I know how the Mojoverse works. So it wasnt a big deal, and I don't think it's supposed to effect us. And no, the issue wasnt deep at all, but again, it's Mojo. Only going to go so far.
Mojos out of place antics doesn't fit the XMen at all, which I think is the point, right? To be honest, I think Deadpool would enjoy the Mojoverse, which makes him less useful. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on with Spiral either. I had the same question, but Mojo did say something along the lines of making her inconsequential again, it may have had something to do with that?
KT told that Spiral situation will be answered in book.
Mojo was good in it. He wasn't annoying or stupid. The whole issue was fun.
But for me it was just forgettable. I read it. It was ok. Move on. Nothing that I want to reread.
Even fight which was good, really missed smth. At the end it felt too long because it felt the same.
I dunno. Just add some ninja guy that threws a lot of knives that Remy can catch and send them charged back. Or make him charge the ground or use charged knout.
Instead we have panels where Gambit is just jumping. I love that he is agile again. But on his jumping panel like noone even shooting him. I think fight that missed smth was more Oscar's fault.
Skroce would give so many details that Gambit would dodge at least 5 spears on a panel with jump.
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Mateo-I didn’t like the mags cameo, either, but everthing she said to him were things she had already told gambit. He knows she doesn’t really like the collar and he knows she’s freaking out about her powers. It was in #5. She clearly wants to talk about it more, but it’s still not anything she didn’t ‘trust’ him with in the first place.
Anyway on this issue, it was a fun set up. Mojo is best in small doses, but it has potentfor amusing meta-ness. The line about the online poll was very funny.
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Yeah, it's hard to get excited for this and all because of that piss poor cameo that really just taints everything, Romy fans are trying their best to put a positive spin on that scene, but like I said it just comes across as desperate because they want this marriage to last and to be seen as good. As for this issue, instead of tackling there problems that were barely covered in the mini, this seems like another adventure that will, for the most part, be rather pointless and of course they are once again caught, tied upside down and another fake death (ugh!). It's only issue #7 and Thompson is repeating herself again, I guess she's all out of ideas or she doesn't think she needs to do anything different. I don't see the point in Longshot being here, other than to remind us that Rogue once had a crush on him, but this is a Rogue solo comic and it has to be about her, so there you go.
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Meh, I think it has more to do with with the state of mind. It was a lite read. At no point in this series am I expecting Mister Miracle or need to reread it like I would have needed with Si Spurrier's X-Men Legacy. Most of time I think fans read too deeply into things as if we're giving the writers too much credit.
I don't see how youd need to be a "Romy fan" to enjoy this for what it was or what anyone was expecting out of this issue. We've known for months that this issue was going to have Mojo in it, so being disappointed by it or the inclusion of Spiral and Longshot really has me puzzled. Calling this a "Rogue solo"... Well yeah I agree she's getting more attention but uhh... She's got more going on with her due to constantly being used over the years.
Gambit has popped in and out of limbo since X-Factor and even in that book he was quickly pushed into the background. Sadly, the only thing Gambit has going for him is his status with the Guild and his recent marriage. It is what it is. Rogue's powers are messed up. Been that way since the end of Uncanny Avengers vol 1. Why not let the writer go through the paces of addressing the issue without a quick fix?
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Oh and again about Magneto... I don't think anyone raged against Magneto more than me and even I don't see the real problem with his use in the last issue. What was it? That he was used so 'early' (I don't see this or any book getting past 15, so early is a relative term) or that he was used at all? Because if it's about the latter then, again, I'm not sure what anyone expected with a book about relationships. I positively hate that the Rogue/ Magneto thing happened, but it did. Like the clown pants or Gambit getting punched out by Cap. What's the point of letting the reality of that upset you upon its mention?
If Gambit/Polaris happened and it broke down, I'd expect for her to be used. But we got Bella because, again sadly, all of Gambits "acquaintances" are original background art characters or dead. This is the X-Men at the of the day. I think the last decade or so made forget how much of a soap opera this can be for long stretches.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I don't have this engrained disdain for Rogue and the last issue didn't irk me so I wasn't tainted going into this issue. I got a kick out several parts within the book, mostly the references such as the Moonlighting theme (I don't recall Bruce and the chick being theives but I was definitely will they/won't they) and Mojo citing the poll from last year. We're all entitled to like what do and dislike things in the same way.
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Meh, I think it has more to do with with the state of mind. It was a lite read. At no point in this series am I expecting Mister Miracle or need to reread it like I would have needed with Si Spurrier's X-Men Legacy. Most of time I think fans read too deeply into things as if we're giving the writers too much credit.
I don't see how youd need to be a "Romy fan" to enjoy this for what it was or what anyone was expecting out of this issue. We've known for months that this issue was going to have Mojo in it, so being disappointed by it or the inclusion of Spiral and Longshot really has me puzzled. Calling this a "Rogue solo"... Well yeah I agree she's getting more attention but uhh... She's got more going on with her due to constantly being used over the years.
Gambit has popped in and out of limbo since X-Factor and even in that book he was quickly pushed into the background. Sadly, the only thing Gambit has going for him is his status with the Guild and his recent marriage. It is what it is. Rogue's powers are messed up. Been that way since the end of Uncanny Avengers vol 1. Why not let the writer go through the paces of addressing the issue without a quick fix?
Just because Gambit hasn't really had any development in years outside of the thieves guild or his relationship with Rogue doesn't mean that fans that lean towards Gambit should just shut up when the book (MMX) that was billed as the married adventures between Rogue AND Gambit is basically a Rogue solo with Gambit as a secondary character. I don't know if you remember or read comics back in the late 90s and early 2000s but there was a time when Rogue was lacking in development and Gambit was actually getting major development outside of his relationship. Then a couple writers came along that were very interested in exploring Rogue's character and over the past couple of years she's been featured much more and developed more outside of Romy. Basically my point is just because Gambit has not been developed much outside of the Guild or his marriage doesn't mean he shouldn't be developed in new ways.
You actually listed a fantastic example in Mister Miracle in what my dream for Gambit would be, something I actually pointed out today in the morning over at CBR. Mister Miracle is a character like Gambit in that before this past year he had barely been featured in comics nor had he had any significant memorable development in a while. In comes a creative bold writer, Tom King, who wanted to take the character in new directions and now his Maxi series has become the gold standard for the character. I would love for something like that to happen to Remy.
I would actually be fine with him continuing to get featured in X-men team books once Age of Xman is over, and if he got more character beats/development in MMX outside of very subtle emotional development where he basically reminds Rogue of her vows when she tries to push him away again (MMX #5). I don't hate Rogue nor do I hate Romy (I actually enjoyed reading it back before 2011) but these are glaring issues that are getting harder to ignore. Look I understand that Rogue doesn't have her powers under control and that her controlling her powers is at this moment the whole point of the ongoing. The problem with that is that we have no indication that MMX will actually last past 12 issues, all we have is that KT said on her tumblr (I finally checked it out) the thieves guild arc will be issues 11 & 12. So basically 10 issues will be much more Rogue focused and we might get (if any) some development on Gambit in the last 2 issues.
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Oh and again about Magneto... I don't think anyone raged against Magneto more than me and even I don't see the real problem with his use in the last issue. What was it? That he was used so 'early' (I don't see this or any book getting past 15, so early is a relative term) or that he was used at all? Because if it's about the latter then, again, I'm not sure what anyone expected with a book about relationships. I positively hate that the Rogue/ Magneto thing happened, but it did. Like the clown pants or Gambit getting punched out by Cap. What's the point of letting the reality of that upset you upon its mention?
If Gambit/Polaris happened and it broke down, I'd expect for her to be used. But we got Bella because, again sadly, all of Gambits "acquaintances" are original background art characters or dead. This is the X-Men at the of the day. I think the last decade or so made forget how much of a soap opera this can be for long stretches.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I don't have this engrained disdain for Rogue and the last issue didn't irk me so I wasn't tainted going into this issue. I got a kick out several parts within the book, mostly the references such as the Moonlighting theme (I don't recall Bruce and the chick being theives but I was definitely will they/won't they) and Mojo citing the poll from last year. We're all entitled to like what do and dislike things in the same way.
For someone who raged against Magneto, you really don't realize why some people may have been unhappy?? Ok, so I'll explain why I was I was unhappy and maybe others hold the same opinions as me. I'll begin by saying that no it was not because he was featured too early or because he was featured at all (this might be more accurate for hardcore Romy fans). I'll also say that no I don't hold disdain for Rogue, I'm not a big fan of her but she's had some good stories outside of Romy.
I'll start by saying that Gambit has been all in on Rogue since 2011 when he gave his safe harbor speech in X-men Legacy #248, he has never been as supportive towards Rogue as he has in MMX. Yet, Rogue apparently feels more comfortable and trusts Magneto more when it comes to discussing her relationship with Gambit. If she had discussed this with one of her close friends like Nightcrawler, Iceman, or some avenger than this would have made much more sense considering she has barely been in contact with Magneto since they broke up. And apparently she originally called Magneto, obviously without Remy's knowledge, to apologize to him for not telling him about the wedding. I understand that sometimes brides/grooms to be may feel the need to let exes that played a major role in their adult lives that they're getting married. But in this case this particular exe (Erik) orchestrated everything in Antarctica, that Rogue herself admitted was the root of all the trust issues between Romy, and you know this exe's actions nearly led Rogue to kill her current husband. I would've thought that Rogue, out of respect for Remy, would've been more reluctant to call Magneto to tell him she was sorry for not telling him about a wedding that was spur of the moment and not confide to him about Remy. Look I don't want her to freak out about towards Erik but I was unhappy with the way their interaction was forced into MMX #6.
And this isn't even going into all the issues I had with Rogneto when it comes to how it reflected on Rogue and Gambit's relationship. You know the whole her going to Mag's room the same day as Remy's harbor speech and then reciting the parts about love from his speech to let everyone know why she's about to sleep with him. And the whole her not caring about Magneto's past (Antarctica and other crimes like mass murder) when she herself had given Remy a hard time all through the comics about his past. This is something that Thompson knows but just expects us to forget about, she literally admitted this on the podcast Xplain the Xmen back from March 2018. I can link you post that here if you want, I posted it on CBR a while ago. Hopefully this helps you see why some of us have issues with this part of MMX #6, we're not just haters as some Romy fans like to label us.
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Rogue's powers, almost since she has existed, have either been 'out of control' or 'uncontrolled' to various degrees. This isn't development for her so much as it is retreading familiar ground in slightly new ways. Gaining full control of her powers in Legacy, even if it was with a crutch and short-lived, was actual development for someone like her.
You know what would be an interesting thing that would actually make sense in a duo book? If Rogue's powers directly caused Gambit's to flare up again, considering his 'fix' at the end of his last solo. That would make for a good story. Well, for me, anyway.
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Just because Gambit hasn't really had any development in years outside of the thieves guild or his relationship with Rogue doesn't mean that fans that lean towards Gambit should just shut up when the book (MMX) that was billed as the married adventures between Rogue AND Gambit is basically a Rogue solo with Gambit as a secondary character. I don't know if you remember or read comics back in the late 90s and early 2000s but there was a time when Rogue was lacking in development and Gambit was actually getting major development outside of his relationship. Then a couple writers came along that were very interested in exploring Rogue's character and over the past couple of years she's been featured much more and developed more outside of Romy. Basically my point is just because Gambit has not been developed much outside of the Guild or his marriage doesn't mean he shouldn't be developed in new ways.
You actually listed a fantastic example in Mister Miracle in what my dream for Gambit would be, something I actually pointed out today in the morning over at CBR. Mister Miracle is a character like Gambit in that before this past year he had barely been featured in comics nor had he had any significant memorable development in a while. In comes a creative bold writer, Tom King, who wanted to take the character in new directions and now his Maxi series has become the gold standard for the character. I would love for something like that to happen to Remy.
I would actually be fine with him continuing to get featured in X-men team books once Age of Xman is over, and if he got more character beats/development in MMX outside of very subtle emotional development where he basically reminds Rogue of her vows when she tries to push him away again (MMX #5). I don't hate Rogue nor do I hate Romy (I actually enjoyed reading it back before 2011) but these are glaring issues that are getting harder to ignore. Look I understand that Rogue doesn't have her powers under control and that her controlling her powers is at this moment the whole point of the ongoing. The problem with that is that we have no indication that MMX will actually last past 12 issues, all we have is that KT said on her tumblr (I finally checked it out) the thieves guild arc will be issues 11 & 12. So basically 10 issues will be much more Rogue focused and we might get (if any) some development on Gambit in the last 2 issues.
Hmmm...I never insinuated anyone should shut up... I can't help but notice a lot of the criticism of the issue(s) comes frim how people feel about a characters actions in it or before it. I never once defended Rogue's actions. I said explicitly that I thought she was dead wrong. But a character doing something wrong doesnt make the scene(s) unenjoyable. I'm talking about this issue not defending Rogue lol. I was the one begging PAD to make Polaris Gambits love interest and Sage before that. So, you anyone bringing up the "Romy" angle isnt really a talking point for me.
I liked issue #6 because of the interactions and the script. I thought the art style was brave and fitting, though not my taste. I didn't dislike it because Magneto was in it. I don't hate Magneto and despite Rogues poor decision to meet with him (that was a mistake), it didn't ruin the issue for me or the next. From I can tell just because WE hate what Carey did (I disliked the Magneto thing more than anyone), Rogue still sees Magneto as a friend. And she spoke to him, as a friend, as undeserving as he is.
I didn't dislike #7 because of Mojo or because Rogue was in it. LOL c'mon, it's a duo book. Theres a 50/50 chance from jump that the story/panel/book will be about her. I didn't dislike it because Longshot was in it while the book takes place in Mojoworld. Last I checked Longshot had more connections here than just Rogue. He is a long time X-Man. I liked the Moonlighting theme and the 4th wall breaking. I do wish that the Guild Arc came before this, but i think this was a set up to tie up some plot before heading into that.
Now nowhere here did I insult anyone or say anyone was wrong for liking or disliking. I questioned some preferences and a couple finger points but it was largely my take on the book, not my opinion of what Rogue did, though I did give that. I'm a Gambit fan, through and through. My avatar is Gambit. I'm a contributor and mod on a Gambit board. My first article was about my favorite character, Gambit. Anyone that insinuates my intentions or suggests I'm less of a fan because I'm not stabbing this series is... Tiring. Perhaps I'll join everyone with kicking the horse carcass.
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Rogue's powers, almost since she has existed, have either been 'out of control' or 'uncontrolled' to various degrees. This isn't development for her so much as it is retreading familiar ground in slightly new ways. Gaining full control of her powers in Legacy, even if it was with a crutch and short-lived, was actual development for someone like her.
You know what would be an interesting thing that would actually make sense in a duo book? If Rogue's powers directly caused Gambit's to flare up again, considering his 'fix' at the end of his last solo. That would make for a good story. Well, for me, anyway.
Yeah I've been hoping to have that addresses for ages. Itd be my preference. I really liked Remydat idea of that happening at the end of the last arc. Gambit just going into a rage or perhaps stopping just short when he found out it was a trick. I would have liked for him to be upset that way than what happened, then have Rogue be a bit taken a back by him not sharing his troubles with her. I believe spasticat wrote a pretty good fanfic where she brought that up.
These two went from dating to married with no lead into a wedding. Could have been a good lesson in what it's like to share your life with someone, really. At this point I think this is more like an advanced version of they had before. But again, you can only be disappointed if you're expecting something more.
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Hmmm...I never insinuated anyone should shut up... I can't help but notice a lot of the criticism of the issue(s) comes frim how people feel about a characters actions in it or before it. I never once defended Rogue's actions. I said explicitly that I thought she was dead wrong. But a character doing something wrong doesnt make the scene(s) unenjoyable. I'm talking about this issue not defending Rogue lol. I was the one begging PAD to make Polaris Gambits love interest and Sage before that. So, you anyone bringing up the "Romy" angle isnt really a talking point for me.
I liked issue #6 because of the interactions and the script. I thought the art style was brave and fitting, though not my taste. I didn't dislike it because Magneto was in it. I don't hate Magneto and despite Rogues poor decision to meet with him (that was a mistake), it didn't ruin the issue for me or the next. From I can tell just because WE hate what Carey did (I disliked the Magneto thing more than anyone), Rogue still sees Magneto as a friend. And she spoke to him, as a friend, as undeserving as he is.
I didn't dislike #7 because of Mojo or because Rogue was in it. LOL c'mon, it's a duo book. Theres a 50/50 chance from jump that the story/panel/book will be about her. I didn't dislike it because Longshot was in it while the book takes place in Mojoworld. Last I checked Longshot had more connections here than just Rogue. He is a long time X-Man. I liked the Moonlighting theme and the 4th wall breaking. I do wish that the Guild Arc came before this, but i think this was a set up to tie up some plot before heading into that.
Now nowhere here did I insult anyone or say anyone was wrong for liking or disliking. I questioned some preferences and a couple finger points but it was largely my take on the book, not my opinion of what Rogue did, though I did give that. I'm a Gambit fan, through and through. My avatar is Gambit. I'm a contributor and mod on a Gambit board. My first article was about my favorite character, Gambit. Anyone that insinuates my intentions or suggests I'm less of a fan because I'm not stabbing this series is... Tiring. Perhaps I'll join everyone with kicking the horse carcass.
I know you weren't accusing anyone of being wrong for their opinions and I know you weren't insulting anyone so I'm sorry if my post came off as too confrontational. Nor was I or anyone else suggesting you were less of a Gambit fan. I know you're a huge fan and it's great to have people like you in this board contributing to my favorite fandom in comics, the Gambit fandom. It's great to interact with other Gambit fans and it's amazing when I can interact with others who still hold passion for the Gambit fandom considering it hasn't been in it's peak in years. My dream would've been to have a forum like this and to take part in it during the 90s when Gambit was at his peak in terms of popularity and appearances in comics.
I think I may have misinterpreted your posts as being like those from some (not all) hardcore Romy fans who can't fathom that we're not head over heels for MMX and basically call anyone a hater for having any sort of criticism for the book. I have encountered this on the CBR forums, where most of the Romy fans are great and very nice, but a few become pretty volatile when you don't gush over MMX.
In your posts what really stood out was when you said "Calling this a 'Rogue Solo'...Well Yea i agree she's getting more attention but uhh...She's got more going on with her due to constantly being used over the years." I inferred this as you suggesting that MMX should be focused more on Rogue just because she's been featured more in recent years, hence why I responded the way I did. You also posted "I don't see the real problem with his use in the last issue. What was it? That he was used so 'early' (I don't see this or any book getting past 15, so early is a relative term) or that he was used at all?". Here I really did think you were wondering why some of us may be upset that Magneto was featured the way he was featured in MMX #6 so I gave you my reasons for being disappointed with with how Thompson wrote in his appearance. I would've been fine with him appearing in other ways and I'm not one of those fans that wants Rogue to tell him off or for Rogneto to just be retconned.
As for this being a duo book, so far I'm not sure if I can label it as that. If this ends at 12 issues then at least 10 of the issues will have been heavily focused on one character (Rogue) and that one character will have gotten most of the development and big character moments. The other character (Gambit) is literally just a support character at this point.
When it comes to MMX #7 I actually thought it was a decent issue. My only complaints for it were that it felt too much like an introductory issue where not much actually happened on page, I felt it was paced a tad bit slow. I wasn't one of those raging over Longshot appearing, I think that could bring some excitement into this series but hopefully his presence won't be as overwhelming as Deadpool felt at times.
When it comes to Gambit I would actually love to see him get some development outside of just the Thieves Guild or just his marriage. I would love to see him interact with other X-men/super heroes and I would love to see him take on other villains either with Rogue or with the X-men. I think there's a lot of potential for him outside of the Guild or his marriage, especially if the 90s and some of the 2000s are anything to go by. I would love to see him go up against Mister Sinister again, their dynamic was great. I would enjoy an arc with Remy and Rogue with Sinister as the villain more than anything on the horizon for that book.
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Am I the only one that wants to see the awkwardness of Gambit being confronted by Ms. Sinister?
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Am I the only one that wants to see the awkwardness of Gambit being confronted by Ms. Sinister?
Hmmm, I like it but I would prefer Candra and original Mr. Sinister. Cough... We could rule the galaxy like father and son... Cough
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I liked issue #6 because of the interactions and the script. I thought the art style was brave and fitting, though not my taste. I didn't dislike it because Magneto was in it. I don't hate Magneto and despite Rogues poor decision to meet with him (that was a mistake), it didn't ruin the issue for me or the next. From I can tell just because WE hate what Carey did (I disliked the Magneto thing more than anyone), Rogue still sees Magneto as a friend. And she spoke to him, as a friend, as undeserving as he is.
This isn't the issue at all. It is the continued disrespect of Gambit that is the issue. Rogneto happened. Ok fine. So when is Rogue going to flat out apologize to Gambit for it? When is Gambit going to call Rogue out directly for it? KT completely ignored any sort of real reaction about it by Gambit in the mini, hand waved it away with a blanket apology but yet brings it back here by having Rogue contact Mags behind Gambit's back and then share intimate details. So I don't have a problem with addressing Rogneto. I have a problem with KT addressing by showing more respect to Mags' feelings than Rogue has even shown Gambit on this matter. She can go out of her way to apologize to Mags but has yet to directly admit how he treated Gambit during that whole affair was wrong.
I didn't dislike #7 because of Mojo or because Rogue was in it. LOL c'mon, it's a duo book. Theres a 50/50 chance from jump that the story/panel/book will be about her. I didn't dislike it because Longshot was in it while the book takes place in Mojoworld. Last I checked Longshot had more connections here than just Rogue. He is a long time X-Man. I liked the Moonlighting theme and the 4th wall breaking. I do wish that the Guild Arc came before this, but i think this was a set up to tie up some plot before heading into that.
Again this misses the point. The Mini was a duo book and Rogue got the bulk of the focus. This book is a duo book and Rogue is getting the bulk of the focus. How long are we going to make excuses. KT is 12 issues into her Romy story and 70-80% of it is Rogue from a development standpoint with Gambit jumping around like a trained monkey.
It is like Gambit fans are so used to be abused we will take whatever scraps Marvel throws at us. At some point enough is enough. I am tired of this same old explanations about how it makes sense for Rogue to get the focus as if we needed another story about her stupid ass powers. It would be one thing if this was new development but all KT is doing is exploring the same story with Rogue's powers that has been told before.
Not the repetitiveness of her storyline with Romy captured in almost the same way again and Gambit dying right after Rogue was supposedly killed. For someone that was so critical of Asmus, I am shocked at how completely unoriginal her story is. Just feels like a writer going through the motions for a paycheck.
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Hmmm, I like it but I would prefer Candra and original Mr. Sinister. Cough... We could rule the galaxy like father and son... Cough
Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.
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Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.
I vaguely remember Gambit interacting with Miss Sinister in the X-23 ongoing from a couple years ago. I can't remember the storyline off the top of my head but it's happened. I would love to see Remy interact with either version of Sinister but finding out he's Sinister's son would probably be the biggest moment in his history.
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This isn't the issue at all. It is the continued disrespect of Gambit that is the issue. Rogneto happened. Ok fine. So when is Rogue going to flat out apologize to Gambit for it? When is Gambit going to call Rogue out directly for it? KT completely ignored any sort of real reaction about it by Gambit in the mini, hand waved it away with a blanket apology but yet brings it back here by having Rogue contact Mags behind Gambit's back and then share intimate details. So I don't have a problem with addressing Rogneto. I have a problem with KT addressing by showing more respect to Mags' feelings than Rogue has even shown Gambit on this matter. She can go out of her way to apologize to Mags but has yet to directly admit how he treated Gambit during that whole affair was wrong.
Again this misses the point. The Mini was a duo book and Rogue got the bulk of the focus. This book is a duo book and Rogue is getting the bulk of the focus. How long are we going to make excuses. KT is 12 issues into her Romy story and 70-80% of it is Rogue from a development standpoint with Gambit jumping around like a trained monkey.
It is like Gambit fans are so used to be abused we will take whatever scraps Marvel throws at us. At some point enough is enough. I am tired of this same old explanations about how it makes sense for Rogue to get the focus as if we needed another story about her stupid ass powers. It would be one thing if this was new development but all KT is doing is exploring the same story with Rogue's powers that has been told before.
Not the repetitiveness of her storyline with Romy captured in almost the same way again and Gambit dying right after Rogue was supposedly killed. For someone that was so critical of Asmus, I am shocked at how completely unoriginal her story is. Just feels like a writer going through the motions for a paycheck.
Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol
I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...
It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!
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I vaguely remember Gambit interacting with Miss Sinister in the X-23 ongoing from a couple years ago. I can't remember the storyline off the top of my head but it's happened. I would love to see Remy interact with either version of Sinister but finding out he's Sinister's son would probably be the biggest moment in his history.
I didnt read X23. I know he "fought" the real Mr Sinister, I wasnt aware he interacted with Miss as well?
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Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol
You said just because We hated Magneto so you aren't merely saying what you liked or disliked, you are implying that others only beef with Mags appearance is based on our disliking Rogneto. I am telling you that is not the case. The problem is KT's writing. Has nothing to do with Legacy. It has to do with the 12 issues she wrote. She wrote Rogue going out of her way to apologize to Magneto directly and explicitly explaining what she was apologizing for. She then wrote Rogue not having the decency to tackle Mags head on and apologize directly and explicitly for her actions all while writing Gambit lacking the balls to call Rogue out for it. That is the problem in KT's writing. A writer that actually cared about the character would have him stand up for himself eventually. KT will never have Gambit do that in any meaningful way and that is why we have issues with her writing. She pretty much admitted as much by having him say an apology is not necessary. You can chalk that up to self loathing but as he is a fictional character, KT had the power to write a different outcome for him but she chose keep him impotent in the face of Rogue.
I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...
It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!
I like Gambit. I don't like characters or writers that s*** on him and too many writers s*** on Gambit whenever he is around Rogue. It's not like I am going out and supporting any of the writers that did that crap to Gambit so not sure why I should support KT making Gambit look like a b***h by never confronting Rogue directly about Mags all while having Rogue fall all over herself to apologize to Mags. The contrast here is striking in that it appears Mags is deserving of a full explanation and apology while Gambit is not. Gambit is forever the chump that just goes along with whatever Rogue decides.
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Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.
I knew that you would cath call back ;)
I think we had a fan video about Gambit origin a year ago. We also was afraid that some of writers will see it and make as canon. More or less I think it is the way it supposed to be.
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I didnt read X23. I know he "fought" the real Mr Sinister, I wasnt aware he interacted with Miss as well?
Yeah. He had some interaction. Also Remy cought her as shapeshifter when Miss were pretending to be Laura.
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I didnt read X23. I know he "fought" the real Mr Sinister, I wasnt aware he interacted with Miss as well?
I googled Miss Sinister's appearance in the X-23 ongoing. Apparently Miss Sinister was an actual woman who Mister Sinister injected his DNA into secretly just in case something happened to his main actual body. So Miss Sinister isn't a usual created clone but an actual person who was one of Sinister's test subjects who had her own sort of demented villain personality. What happened is that Sinister's DNA slowly started to form a presence in her mind with the goal of Sinister eventually self-resurrecting if he's able to take hold of her mind. Sinister nearly gets control of her mind and manifests for a little bit (her body literally morphs to Sinister's male body for a sec), but Miss Sinister is able to regain control of her mind/body. Miss Sinister does have a lot of the same powers of Sinister because of his DNA and his DNA basically turned her into a genetically female version of him . Sinister then takes possession of one his other test subjects, a girl who Gambit and X-23 were trying to help. They help the girl get free of Sinister but he secretly survives by taking possession of a clone of the girl and gets his main body back.
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Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol
I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...
It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!
I think that a lot of people are still upset with Legacy or see it as an unavoidable blemish currently because it had a huge impact on Rogue and Gambit's relationship which is at the forefront of their ongoing. Mr & Mrs. X is literally a comic focused solely on their marriage (relationship). While yes you can label it as buffoonery and bad writing, it is still canon. And while Gambit has suffered from much of this crappy writing/buffoonery we know the reasons why he made many of his nimrod choices from the past. Whether it was Deathbit, his role in the Marauders, the Racky Lebeau stuff, and some of the more recent things. Sure you find his reasoning unsatisfactory but at least we know why. Had these moments been written better I would actually be fine with them and wouldn't hate those stories as much because it makes Gambit's character seem more human and multi-faceted instead of just a goody good spotless super hero like Clark Kent.
Many people still hold a grudge over Rogneto because we don't much about Rogue's reasoning for pursuing a relationship with Magneto and the little bit that has been written in the comics on this is very vague in explaining her reasons. Rogneto literally unfolded by having Rogue go to Magneto's room at night to sleep with him, she promised him only one night but then all of a sudden a few issues later they're in a full blown relationship and are shown in bed together post-coital before deciding to have more sex. We only have two instances where Rogue explains her reasoning for pursuing Magneto, yes she explicitly pursued this relationship (this is clear in Legacy). The first is in Legacy #248 where she recites the part of Gambit harbor speech where Remy says the reasons for and reasons against love don't matter anymore when you love somebody, to explain why she's about to make love to Magneto. That's all we got from Legacy because after that they were in a relationship. The second instance is in R&G #3 when she tells Remy she couldn't be with him when she had control of her powers because she had to try someone else first, that's all we got from that.
We never found out how Rogue was able to come to terms with Magneto's past, something she had a lot of trouble doing with Gambit. As Kelly Thompson has said herself in a podcast, we never found out how she was able to come to terms with things like Antarctica where she herself accused Magneto of mentally violating her on panel and how this caused her to leave Gambit to freeze/starve to death in Antarctica. Not to mention the other stuff Mags has done, like mass murder. You can infer from what we do have in the comics is that Rogue just loved Magneto that much that she just looked past those things without a care to address them when pursuing a relationship with Erik after not having interacted with him in years and even now she feels more comfortable discussing her relationship with Gambit to Magneto than with anybody else , this is a level of affection and sentimentality she has never shown towards Gambit.
This doesn't reflect well on Rogue when you factor in that in MMX where Gambit is seen as being more supportive and devoted than ever (this is a good thing in my opinion) but she still continues to put up walls towards and tries to run at the first instance hence why he has to remind her of the vows she made during their wedding in issue 5. Hell I'm under the impression that Rogue would've never even cared to try to fix her powers on her own had they not gone all bonkers. She would've been fine with the marriage to Remy despite all the constraints due to her powers and the collar.
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I like Gambit. I don't like characters or writers that s*** on him and too many writers s*** on Gambit whenever he is around Rogue. It's not like I am going out and supporting any of the writers that did that crap to Gambit so not sure why I should support KT making Gambit look like a b***h by never confronting Rogue directly about Mags all while having Rogue fall all over herself to apologize to Mags. The contrast here is striking in that it appears Mags is deserving of a full explanation and apology while Gambit is not. Gambit is forever the chump that just goes along with whatever Rogue decides.
Yeah, I'm not asking anyone to "support" anything. I'm just here to talk about the book... I simply don't understand why we can't talk about this without wading into the crap-storm that Legacy turned into. I'm not saying any way that you currently feel is wrong. I'm just kinda over it all. Perhaps its because I review and analyze so much now, that I've learned to not be so attached to things. I'm reading in a vacuum, not judging "A" while taking "X" into account. Its not worth it to me. Retcons and reinterpretations happen all the time in books. It's how Gambit went from being called one of the best hand-to-hand fighters by Nick Fury, to getting 1-punch KOed by Mystique. I want to read books while thinking about X-Men Legacy as much as I like biting into a juicy Scotch Bonnet while eating stewpeas. That's not fun, though some people do like it... so to each their own.
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I think that a lot of people are still upset with Legacy or see it as an unavoidable blemish currently because it had a huge impact on Rogue and Gambit's relationship which is at the forefront of their ongoing. Mr & Mrs. X is literally a comic focused solely on their marriage (relationship). While yes you can label it as buffoonery and bad writing, it is still canon. And while Gambit has suffered from much of this crappy writing/buffoonery we know the reasons why he made many of his nimrod choices from the past. Whether it was Deathbit, his role in the Marauders, the Racky Lebeau stuff, and some of the more recent things. Sure you find his reasoning unsatisfactory but at least we know why. Had these moments been written better I would actually be fine with them and wouldn't hate those stories as much because it makes Gambit's character seem more human and multi-faceted instead of just a goody good spotless super hero like Clark Kent.
Many people still hold a grudge over Rogneto because we don't much about Rogue's reasoning for pursuing a relationship with Magneto and the little bit that has been written in the comics on this is very vague in explaining her reasons. Rogneto literally unfolded by having Rogue go to Magneto's room at night to sleep with him, she promised him only one night but then all of a sudden a few issues later they're in a full blown relationship and are shown in bed together post-coital before deciding to have more sex. We only have two instances where Rogue explains her reasoning for pursuing Magneto, yes she explicitly pursued this relationship (this is clear in Legacy). The first is in Legacy #248 where she recites the part of Gambit harbor speech where Remy says the reasons for and reasons against love don't matter anymore when you love somebody, to explain why she's about to make love to Magneto. That's all we got from Legacy because after that they were in a relationship. The second instance is in R&G #3 when she tells Remy she couldn't be with him when she had control of her powers because she had to try someone else first, that's all we got from that.
We never found out how Rogue was able to come to terms with Magneto's past, something she had a lot of trouble doing with Gambit. As Kelly Thompson has said herself in a podcast, we never found out how she was able to come to terms with things like Antarctica where she herself accused Magneto of mentally violating her on panel and how this caused her to leave Gambit to freeze/starve to death in Antarctica. Not to mention the other stuff Mags has done, like mass murder. You can infer from what we do have in the comics is that Rogue just loved Magneto that much that she just looked past those things without a care to address them when pursuing a relationship with Erik after not having interacted with him in years and even now she feels more comfortable discussing her relationship with Gambit to Magneto than with anybody else , this is a level of affection and sentimentality she has never shown towards Gambit.
This doesn't reflect well on Rogue when you factor in that in MMX where Gambit is seen as being more supportive and devoted than ever (this is a good thing in my opinion) but she still continues to put up walls towards and tries to run at the first instance hence why he has to remind her of the vows she made during their wedding in issue 5. Hell I'm under the impression that Rogue would've never even cared to try to fix her powers on her own had they not gone all bonkers. She would've been fine with the marriage to Remy despite all the constraints due to her powers and the collar.
The Legacy story was Mike Carey finding out Marvel wasn't renewing his contract for the amount he wanted or possibly at all. He accelerated his story following the end of AoX. We didn't get to see Rogue's "reasons" because according to him it was worked out "off panel". To be honest, my concern wasn't so much with Rogue, Magneto, or Gambit after the initial shock of discovering their relationship wore off (this event made me come back to reading comics BTW. I had quite after Gambit blinded himself). My disgust was with the rest of the X-Men. Like they did with being OK that Gambit was left to die years earlier, apparently, no one had a single concern about Rogue's choice in romantic partnering. Probably none of their business, but people like Storm and Wolverine who don't much care about hurt feelings, had nothing to say? Not a word? A comment? Nothing? I found it crazy that the same person that wrote the "harbor speech" everyone loves quoting, is the same person that did the very thing the same people (including me) renounced. It was more proof to me that the whole thing was just a product of Carey's wet dream that he wanted fulfilled before walking out the door.
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Yeah, I'm not asking anyone to "support" anything. I'm just here to talk about the book... I simply don't understand why we can't talk about this without wading into the crap-storm that Legacy turned into. I'm not saying any way that you currently feel is wrong. I'm just kinda over it all. Perhaps its because I review and analyze so much now, that I've learned to not be so attached to things. I'm reading in a vacuum, not judging "A" while taking "X" into account. Its not worth it to me. Retcons and reinterpretations happen all the time in books. It's how Gambit went from being called one of the best hand-to-hand fighters by Nick Fury, to getting 1-punch KOed by Mystique. I want to read books while thinking about X-Men Legacy as much as I like biting into a juicy Scotch Bonnet while eating stewpeas. That's not fun, though some people do like it... so to each their own.
Well because Mags showed up in the book because of Legacy. KT is the one who put Mags in the book to respect continutiy so we are discussing the book. Should we ignore that Mags showed up and for many of us the respect showed to him at the expense of Gambit was problematic?
Not my fault KT wrote a crap story that feaured Mags because of Legacy.
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I think that a lot of people are still upset with Legacy or see it as an unavoidable blemish currently because it had a huge impact on Rogue and Gambit's relationship which is at the forefront of their ongoing. Mr & Mrs. X is literally a comic focused solely on their marriage (relationship). While yes you can label it as buffoonery and bad writing, it is still canon. And while Gambit has suffered from much of this crappy writing/buffoonery we know the reasons why he made many of his nimrod choices from the past. Whether it was Deathbit, his role in the Marauders, the Racky Lebeau stuff, and some of the more recent things. Sure you find his reasoning unsatisfactory but at least we know why. Had these moments been written better I would actually be fine with them and wouldn't hate those stories as much because it makes Gambit's character seem more human and multi-faceted instead of just a goody good spotless super hero like Clark Kent.
Many people still hold a grudge over Rogneto because we don't much about Rogue's reasoning for pursuing a relationship with Magneto and the little bit that has been written in the comics on this is very vague in explaining her reasons. Rogneto literally unfolded by having Rogue go to Magneto's room at night to sleep with him, she promised him only one night but then all of a sudden a few issues later they're in a full blown relationship and are shown in bed together post-coital before deciding to have more sex. We only have two instances where Rogue explains her reasoning for pursuing Magneto, yes she explicitly pursued this relationship (this is clear in Legacy). The first is in Legacy #248 where she recites the part of Gambit harbor speech where Remy says the reasons for and reasons against love don't matter anymore when you love somebody, to explain why she's about to make love to Magneto. That's all we got from Legacy because after that they were in a relationship. The second instance is in R&G #3 when she tells Remy she couldn't be with him when she had control of her powers because she had to try someone else first, that's all we got from that.
We never found out how Rogue was able to come to terms with Magneto's past, something she had a lot of trouble doing with Gambit. As Kelly Thompson has said herself in a podcast, we never found out how she was able to come to terms with things like Antarctica where she herself accused Magneto of mentally violating her on panel and how this caused her to leave Gambit to freeze/starve to death in Antarctica. Not to mention the other stuff Mags has done, like mass murder. You can infer from what we do have in the comics is that Rogue just loved Magneto that much that she just looked past those things without a care to address them when pursuing a relationship with Erik after not having interacted with him in years and even now she feels more comfortable discussing her relationship with Gambit to Magneto than with anybody else , this is a level of affection and sentimentality she has never shown towards Gambit.
This doesn't reflect well on Rogue when you factor in that in MMX where Gambit is seen as being more supportive and devoted than ever (this is a good thing in my opinion) but she still continues to put up walls towards and tries to run at the first instance hence why he has to remind her of the vows she made during their wedding in issue 5. Hell I'm under the impression that Rogue would've never even cared to try to fix her powers on her own had they not gone all bonkers. She would've been fine with the marriage to Remy despite all the constraints due to her powers and the collar.
Yep the fact is KT had a chance to address Rogneto properly but bailed on that opportunity. That is the biggest frustration. She claims she respects continuity but she has dealt with Gambit's issues as superficially as possible. Instead of exploring that hurt and betrayal we getting another stupid story about Rogue's powers.
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Yep the fact is KT had a chance to address Rogneto properly but bailed on that opportunity. That is the biggest frustration. She claims she respects continuity but she has dealt with Gambit's issues as superficially as possible. Instead of exploring that hurt and betrayal we getting another stupid story about Rogue's powers.
This book is too Rogue heavy and too Gambit lite. Its not balanced (yeah, I know broken record but its all we've had for far too many issues.) The only character being written in this book is Rogue - and that is all on KT. Her choice of story telling.
edit: guess I'll sputter from time to time. :)
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maybe its because i dont necessarily like the character but is the development Rogue is getting in this book good? i mean imo its s***e she's more broken and overbearing reading back on issue 6 her dialog is terrible like some bad fan fic
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maybe its because i dont necessarily like the character but is the development Rogue is getting in this book good? i mean imo its s***e she's more broken and overbearing reading back on issue 6 her dialog is terrible like some bad fan fic
Its an interesting question. I don't know if her characterization is good, its just too much. LOL
Rogue's hardcore fans aren't talking about this book. Currently, they seem to be MIA at the other place.
I'm thinking the only support its really getting is from romys who have their goggles on because of the marriage. And they aren't really saying much other than "its great" which isn't really saying anything.
edit: I guess this group likes to dissect stuff more. :D
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The Legacy story was Mike Carey finding out Marvel wasn't renewing his contract for the amount he wanted or possibly at all. He accelerated his story following the end of AoX. We didn't get to see Rogue's "reasons" because according to him it was worked out "off panel". To be honest, my concern wasn't so much with Rogue, Magneto, or Gambit after the initial shock of discovering their relationship wore off (this event made me come back to reading comics BTW. I had quite after Gambit blinded himself). My disgust was with the rest of the X-Men. Like they did with being OK that Gambit was left to die years earlier, apparently, no one had a single concern about Rogue's choice in romantic partnering. Probably none of their business, but people like Storm and Wolverine who don't much care about hurt feelings, had nothing to say? Not a word? A comment? Nothing? I found it crazy that the same person that wrote the "harbor speech" everyone loves quoting, is the same person that did the very thing the same people (including me) renounced. It was more proof to me that the whole thing was just a product of Carey's wet dream that he wanted fulfilled before walking out the door.
That's always been a gripe of mine too and one that I know will never be addressed. The other X-men have treated Gambit worse than Sinister has. I honestly don't like the harbor speech, and I've grown to hate it over the years because every writer since has used it as an excuse to base nearly everything Gambit does and all of his development on Rogue. It eternally tied him down to Rogue and he hasn't seen any development outside of Rogue since then and he hasn't even developed from other interactions with other characters.
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Its an interesting question. I don't know if her characterization is good, its just too much. LOL
Rogue's hardcore fans aren't talking about this book. Currently, they seem to be MIA at the other place.
I'm thinking the only support its really getting is from romys who have their goggles on because of the marriage. And they aren't really saying much other than "its great" which isn't really saying anything.
edit: I guess this group likes to dissect stuff more. :D
Hardcore Romy fans are the people who are buying this comic and what's keeping it afloat. I don't now how long they can make it last but fans that lean more towards Gambit or Rogue aren't supporting it anywhere near as much. I really think Marvel chose to release this book about 15 years too late. This would be much more popular had it come out about 15 years ago when the Romy fandom was at it's peak. Hell it would probably sell better if it had the word "X-men" somewhere in its title.
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That's always been a gripe of mine too and one that I know will never be addressed. The other X-men have treated Gambit worse than Sinister has. I honestly don't like the harbor speech, and I've grown to hate it over the years because every writer since has used it as an excuse to base nearly everything Gambit does and all of his development on Rogue. It eternally tied him down to Rogue and he hasn't seen any development outside of Rogue since then and he hasn't even developed from other interactions with other characters.
Sinister is his best friend.
I still think that Essex is sad that Remy didn't invite him to his mareiage.
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Yes can we get a Gambit and Sinister due book. Would be much better than this Rogue solo designed as a Romy book.
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maybe its because i dont necessarily like the character but is the development Rogue is getting in this book good? i mean imo its s***e she's more broken and overbearing reading back on issue 6 her dialog is terrible like some bad fan fic
“Better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.”
Whether you like Rogue's development or not, it is clear KT is trying to do something with the character. There is no indication she gives a s*** about Gambit beyond the fact he is Rogue's preferred Johnson. Gambit is not being treated like an equal participant in this point. He is being treated like Rogue's love interest.
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Hardcore Romy fans are the people who are buying this comic and what's keeping it afloat. I don't now how long they can make it last but fans that lean more towards Gambit or Rogue aren't supporting it anywhere near as much. I really think Marvel chose to release this book about 15 years too late. This would be much more popular had it come out about 15 years ago when the Romy fandom was at it's peak. Hell it would probably sell better if it had the word "X-men" somewhere in its title.
Agreed. The sales numbers show the lack of support from the hardcore factions verses the pairing group. It's not a sales burner and I agree the Xmen name should have been on the book somewhere.
I also agree and think this book is too late to capitalize on the fanbase that it is geared toward.
Having said that, the problem may be more than the concept being late. If the hardcore fan isn't getting what they had hoped or wanted out of the book. Fans bailed.
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Wow, haven't been here in a while. Sad to see the rogue/mags craziness still around, though, in hindsight, I suppose it would be until someone has the guts to fix it.
Anyway, I saw a posterr mentioned , all we got about 'rpgneto' were two things but honestly, one glaring omission was the actual mechanism/cause used to get rogue to Mags, i.e. using AoX Legacy's memories of love for him on Rogue. It was stated in the comic itself and also by Craey in interviews. So, we mustn't forget that too in what went down.
That doesn't excuse what he wrote but to be accurate, we mustn't leave that out either. And it doesn't mean we love/excuse Rogue or 'romy' if we state it also.
As evidence--- i used to LOVE Rogue but now I can't stand her. I should say, pre-Carey, I loved her but post-Carey, I just couldn't. I stopped comics. I thought about staying for Gambit but let's face it, spending money on what he gets to do in a month isn't worth it to me.
KT seems to like Carey's work which was a red signal for me so I'm not surprised she is writing such nonsense which is baffling considering she identifies as a 'feminist' on her tumblr. Not sure what feninist is okay with 'brainwashing a woman into sex' but, she seems to want to ignore what she wants.
I think Marvel needs to spend some money on actual writers (maybe from another medium... TV or so) and get some professionals in there.
BTW, I believe Marvel stood by Carey back then. He decided to leave. Thank God there are new people in charge now.
I'm sorry for all og the typos. I'm only passing through to do a post for Neko and saw this and wanted to mention the omission so I'm not going to bother to fix the typos. Just ignore my post if it suits you.
To more important, real life matters--- I wish you all and yours a very Happy 2019.
Take care
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Wow, haven't been here in a while. Sad to see the rogue/mags craziness still around, though, in hindsight, I suppose it would be until someone has the guts to fix it.
Anyway, I saw a posterr mentioned , all we got about 'rpgneto' were two things but honestly, one glaring omission was the actual mechanism/cause used to get rogue to Mags, i.e. using AoX Legacy's memories of love for him on Rogue. It was stated in the comic itself and also by Craey in interviews. So, we mustn't forget that too in what went down.
That doesn't excuse what he wrote but to be accurate, we mustn't leave that out either. And it doesn't mean we love/excuse Rogue or 'romy' if we state it also.
As evidence--- i used to LOVE Rogue but now I can't stand her. I should say, pre-Carey, I loved her but post-Carey, I just couldn't. I stopped comics. I thought about staying for Gambit but let's face it, spending money on what he gets to do in a month isn't worth it to me.
KT seems to like Carey's work which was a red signal for me so I'm not surprised she is writing such nonsense which is baffling considering she identifies as a 'feminist' on her tumblr. Not sure what feninist is okay with 'brainwashing a woman into sex' but, she seems to want to ignore what she wants.
I think Marvel needs to spend some money on actual writers (maybe from another medium... TV or so) and get some professionals in there.
BTW, I believe Marvel stood by Carey back then. He decided to leave. Thank God there are new people in charge now.
I'm sorry for all og the typos. I'm only passing through to do a post for Neko and saw this and wanted to mention the omission so I'm not going to bother to fix the typos. Just ignore my post if it suits you.
To more important, real life matters--- I wish you all and yours a very Happy 2019.
Take care
Alright so that prick Mike Carey hasn't been very clear on this and his writing doesn't necessarily match what he's said in interviews. In this interview: [/size]https://www.cbr.com/x-position-mike-...f-x-aftermath/ (https://www.cbr.com/x-position-mike-carey-on-the-age-of-x-aftermath/)[/color][/size] Carey say's in the first question after he's asked about Legacy's memories, "That's a question she's probably asking herself, Xerox-Kitty. I'm sure those memories are still in the mix and I think it's for that reason that Magneto suddenly back-pedaled and tried to warn her off. It's similar to what happened in issue #234 when she kissed him under the influence of the psi-powers she'd borrowed from the Cuckoos. He refused to take advantage of the situation then, wanting her to come to him of her own free will and similarly, here, he does his best to remind her of what she might be getting into. But taking all these things into account, Rogue is still very much her own woman and she made the decision that felt right to her. I think it's important to stress that. She might be experiencing psychic echoes, but her feelings are her own and her life is her own. So in answer to your second question, I'd say, emphatically, yes -- whatever else is going on in her mind, the attraction is genuine." [/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]However Carey has Rogue say this to Magneto in X-men Legacy #248, "Ah don't want to be around you. Ah can't sort out mah own thoughts from Legacy's. She loved you, loved the General. He was the thing she clung to, when she felt like she was drowning." That's on page 20 of that issue. [/color][/size]Carey clearly wants us to interpret all of this as Rogue loving Magneto of her own free will (with some of Legacy's mind in there). Basically that prick used Legacy's memories as a device/excuse to push them together because he was too lazy of a writer to actually develop Rogneto but he wants us to know that Rogue making the final push to pursue a relationship with Magneto was all on her. So now we're stuck with this and we have to acknowledge that it's what Rogue wanted. And nothing written to elaborate on this since proves the contrary. [/color]
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Respectfully, I think some of you are holding onto that Roguneto scene from issue #6 like a dog would with a bone. Let’s be realistic, hasn’t Kelly Thompson said that she isn’t a fan of Roguneto to but it did happen in the comics so you have to deal with it. I don’t think she is going to take a dump on Mike Carey. Roguneto is dead, Gage killed it in Legacy. Plus it is not as if the scene in #6 was really a pro Roguneto scene.
At some point out of courtesy Rogue wanted to talk to Magneto to talk about accepting Gambit’s wedding proposal after rejecting his not too long ago. Then Magneto showed up on his own accord. She said what she needed. Then said he could go.If this was a pro Roguneto. We would have had a lot worse than this. If there is a pro Roguneto scene I’ll be the first to complain. If there is a pro Storm/ Magneto scene, a pro Jean/Magneto scene, etc in a x-book. I’ll be the first to complain, Magneto is a gross romantic companion for anyone.
I am enjoying this series, I am not judging based on some 50/50 scale. This has been a story about both of them together. I know that if you are not a Romy fan that will not likely entertain you. But this is the best X-Book going. Have you read Uncanny? What a mess. Gambit fans should feel more positive today and should be hopeful of the future. Instead, not that I begrudge you being able to do so,some are complaining so passionately you would think it was 2006 with Milligan writting a lobotomied Gambit that can’t see through Mystique’s obvious b.s.
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Respectfully, I think some of you are holding onto that Roguneto scene from issue #6 like a dog would with a bone. Let’s be realistic, hasn’t Kelly Thompson said that she isn’t a fan of Roguneto to but it did happen in the comics so you have to deal with it. I don’t think she is going to take a dump on Mike Carey. Roguneto is dead, Gage killed it in Legacy. Plus it is not as if the scene in #6 was really a pro Roguneto scene.
At some point out of courtesy Rogue wanted to talk to Magneto to talk about accepting Gambit’s wedding proposal after rejecting his not too long ago. Then Magneto showed up on his own accord. She said what she needed. Then said he could go.If this was a pro Roguneto. We would have had a lot worse than this. If there is a pro Roguneto scene I’ll be the first to complain. If there is a pro Storm/ Magneto scene, a pro Jean/Magneto scene, etc in a x-book. I’ll be the first to complain, Magneto is a gross romantic companion for anyone.
I am enjoying this series, I am not judging based on some 50/50 scale. This has been a story about both of them together. I know that if you are not a Romy fan that will not likely entertain you. But this is the best X-Book going. Have you read Uncanny? What a mess. Gambit fans should feel more positive today and should be hopeful of the future. Instead, not that I begrudge you being able to do so,some are complaining so passionately you would think it was 2006 with Milligan writting a lobotomied Gambit that can’t see through Mystique’s obvious b.s.
KT likes Rogneto. She is a huge fan of AOA. I don't know, really about Legacy. Maybe she is not a fan of Legacy but she likes Rogue and Magneto.
KT also likes Rogue and Deadpool. Rogue just kissed Wade. Nothing more. It never were used in other books.
KT made from single kiss sutiation that Rogue was making out with Wade. She used it in R&G, MMX and even made X-23 talking with Kate Bishop about it in Hawkeye solo.
She likes all that romances for Rogue. Just Romy is her favourite.
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KT likes Rogneto. She is a huge fan of AOA. I don't know, really about Legacy. Maybe she is not a fan of Legacy but she likes Rogue and Magneto.
KT also likes Rogue and Deadpool. Rogue just kissed Wade. Nothing more. It never were used in other books.
KT made from single kiss sutiation that Rogue was making out with Wade. She used it in R&G, MMX and even made X-23 talking with Kate Bishop about it in Hawkeye solo.
She likes all that romances for Rogue. Just Romy is her favourite.
Yup, this is all true. She has voiced her fondness of Rogneto (both AOA and Legacy) in the Xplain the Xmen podcast and she is a fan of what happened between Deadpool and Rogue.
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As others have said, none of us are denying that it happen, what some of us were asking for (at least I was), was for Rogue to admit that it was the wrong thing to do in sleeping with him, to apologize to Gambit for that and that she shouldn't treat someone who is a psychopathic genocidal mass murder with a death toll in the 100s or 1000s, who personalty sought to ruin her then boyfriend's life and pretty much succeeded, as some sort of friend. Especially when he has never been a friend to her, has ever cared about her well-being, has never thought highly of Gambit at all and has never apologized for anything he's ever done... but suddenly does. That everything he's ever done is looked as if it was no big deal.
I would have thought that Rogue admitting that it was a terrible mistake, that she sees what Mag is and always has been, would have been some important character development for her, that she's learned and grown since those blind naive days, but since Kelly is fan of it, that wasn't going to happen. Roguneto is dead... I hope it is, but I just can't see it being dead at all.
Like I said, having Rogue state that leaving Gambit to die was "bad on top of bad", well the person who caused that was Mag and she very well knows that, she saw the tape of him dressing up like Eric the Red. But again like I said, Kelly is just cherry picking what canon she likes and doesn't. I just saw someone on the CBR board stating that there glad that she counter-retconned the Sentry crap, but just a few weeks ago, they were stating that you can't ignore continuity... these people need to make up there minds.
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Alright so that prick Mike Carey hasn't been very clear on this and his writing doesn't necessarily match what he's said in interviews. In this interview: https://www.cbr.com/x-position-mike-...f-x-aftermath/ (https://www.cbr.com/x-position-mike-carey-on-the-age-of-x-aftermath/) Carey say's in the first question after he's asked about Legacy's memories, "That's a question she's probably asking herself, Xerox-Kitty. I'm sure those memories are still in the mix and I think it's for that reason that Magneto suddenly back-pedaled and tried to warn her off. It's similar to what happened in issue #234 when she kissed him under the influence of the psi-powers she'd borrowed from the Cuckoos. He refused to take advantage of the situation then, wanting her to come to him of her own free will and similarly, here, he does his best to remind her of what she might be getting into. But taking all these things into account, Rogue is still very much her own woman and she made the decision that felt right to her. I think it's important to stress that. She might be experiencing psychic echoes, but her feelings are her own and her life is her own. So in answer to your second question, I'd say, emphatically, yes -- whatever else is going on in her mind, the attraction is genuine."
/size]
However Carey has Rogue say this to Magneto in X-men Legacy #248, "Ah don't want to be around you. Ah can't sort out mah own thoughts from Legacy's. She loved you, loved the General. He was the thing she clung to, when she felt like she was drowning." That's on page 20 of that issue. Carey clearly wants us to interpret all of this as Rogue loving Magneto of her own free will (with some of Legacy's mind in there). Basically that prick used Legacy's memories as a device/excuse to push them together because he was too lazy of a writer to actually develop Rogneto but he wants us to know that Rogue making the final push to pursue a relationship with Magneto was all on her. So now we're stuck with this and we have to acknowledge that it's what Rogue wanted. And nothing written to elaborate on this since proves the contrary.
Hi,
My post was meant to signify that there was more than just two things we knew about 'Rogneto', notably, the 'brainwashing' which was omitted in the original post.
As you said, Carey said many things, one of which you posted. But, you probably saw the other things he said too, at differing times. For, at the onset, he said it was for one night and he used the AoX memories as the impetus for it.
I'm sure you can find the quote if you should so choose but it was pretty evident from the book itself where he had Rogue say it was one night and that she couldn't tell her memories from Legacy's.
As distasteful as that was and as fan anger grew, he also became angry and later quotes (like the one you posted above) were said.
The story was supposed to be that his fav (Mags) would get to sleep with Rogue. He didn't want to go the respectable route of having them sort out their issues, date etc. So, he created the AoX memories thing to skip that and get Rogue to Mags. It was supposed to be a one night thing because the purpose was just to have Mags have Rogue. Then, the story was supposed to be that R&R (never got around to calling it 'romy') were to get back together by the end of the storyline because she loved him.
But, when fans didn't take it well, things soured between them and Carey/Marvel. At that point, with the guys in charge at the time supporting him to the hilt, he changed the story.
It then became a 'relationship' and he kept Gambit in the book (even though Gillen wanted him for his) to basically hurt those fans. I'm trying to find a better way to say this but there isn't. I'm not saying Carey is a bad guy but he became resentful and vindictive as fans did also, TBH.
So it was changed and got a rush job treatment especially in the art. Look at his last issue how lacking of detail the art was. He put in that scene of Mags with Rogue to stick it to his detractors on his way out.
It's not classy and on both sides things were said etc (myself included, mind you). No one's essentially bad but rough things were said on both sides.
Anyway, I can't believe folks are quoting what I've come to realise is the 'harbour speech' giving it some revelence. Uh... that bit of dialogue wasn't meant in the way folks are taking it.
It's there so that Gambit can dump Rogue so that when Carey got his 'Rogneto' in, no one can say that Rogue 'cheated' on Gambit because she just got dumped by him. It was never meant to be taken the way I see some are viewing it.
All in all, I just wanted to say that the AoX memories thing is a part of the 'Rogneto' mess, hopefully not to be omitted. One can still dislike Rogue and hate 'romy' without omitting that.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of what to do with it. I mean, one can ignore it and say it's all Rogue or one can take it into account. I'm just saying it was there whether one chooses to factor it in or not. Fair enough.
I assume you're going to reply, please know that I probably won't respond as again, I came back to check to see if my friend, Neko got my message and i'm not buying comics anymore so please don't take it personally if I'm not around for replies.
Take care
BTW, had no idea they retconned Sentry/Rogue.
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Hi,
My post was meant to signify that there was more than just two things we knew about 'Rogneto', notably, the 'brainwashing' which was omitted in the original post.
As you said, Carey said many things, one of which you posted. But, you probably saw the other things he said too, at differing times. For, at the onset, he said it was for one night and he used the AoX memories as the impetus for it.
I'm sure you can find the quote if you should so choose but it was pretty evident from the book itself where he had Rogue say it was one night and that she couldn't tell her memories from Legacy's.
As distasteful as that was and as fan anger grew, he also became angry and later quotes (like the one you posted above) were said.
The story was supposed to be that his fav (Mags) would get to sleep with Rogue. He didn't want to go the respectable route of having them sort out their issues, date etc. So, he created the AoX memories thing to skip that and get Rogue to Mags. It was supposed to be a one night thing because the purpose was just to have Mags have Rogue. Then, the story was supposed to be that R&R (never got around to calling it 'romy') were to get back together by the end of the storyline because she loved him.
But, when fans didn't take it well, things soured between them and Carey/Marvel. At that point, with the guys in charge at the time supporting him to the hilt, he changed the story.
It then became a 'relationship' and he kept Gambit in the book (even though Gillen wanted him for his) to basically hurt those fans. I'm trying to find a better way to say this but there isn't. I'm not saying Carey is a bad guy but he became resentful and vindictive as fans did also, TBH.
So it was changed and got a rush job treatment especially in the art. Look at his last issue how lacking of detail the art was. He put in that scene of Mags with Rogue to stick it to his detractors on his way out.
It's not classy and on both sides things were said etc (myself included, mind you). No one's essentially bad but rough things were said on both sides.
Anyway, I can't believe folks are quoting what I've come to realise is the 'harbour speech' giving it some revelence. Uh... that bit of dialogue wasn't meant in the way folks are taking it.
It's there so that Gambit can dump Rogue so that when Carey got his 'Rogneto' in, no one can say that Rogue 'cheated' on Gambit because she just got dumped by him. It was never meant to be taken the way I see some are viewing it.
All in all, I just wanted to say that the AoX memories thing is a part of the 'Rogneto' mess, hopefully not to be omitted. One can still dislike Rogue and hate 'romy' without omitting that.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of what to do with it. I mean, one can ignore it and say it's all Rogue or one can take it into account. I'm just saying it was there whether one chooses to factor it in or not. Fair enough.
I assume you're going to reply, please know that I probably won't respond as again, I came back to check to see if my friend, Neko got my message and i'm not buying comics anymore so please don't take it personally if I'm not around for replies.
Take care
BTW, had no idea they retconned Sentry/Rogue.
Thank you for sharing the truth!
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I agree with most of that, but I do think Carey meant for the legacy memories to push her to him, but then she was supposed to be not able to resist him after that, because of his awesome manliness or whatever crap. And from carey’s comments, the habor speech was supposed to be gambit being manipulative (dumping her, thinking she’d get scared and run back, but it would backfire on him.)
He definitely was surprised and seemingly quite bitter, that the fans didn’t like his super sexist story, I think he thought it would get a response like Scott/Emma did. That the die hard shippers wouldn’t like it, but the ‘average’ fans would love it because it was a new and interesting, but that didn’t happen. He even got to the point where in one of his last interviews he said the next writer would be coward if they broke up Rogneto.it’s like, dude at some point you just need to accept that maybe you wrote a bad story...
As to she shouldn’t treat him as a friend at all...yes, she should not, none of the x-men shouldn’t, he shouldn’t have been trusted as much as he was on utopia, he shouldn’t have been automatically made ‘Vice President’... it’s a consistent problem the marvel has. The movies fall prey to it as well. I‘be heard people who have only seen the movies, laugh about how Xavier is magneto’s ‘battered girlfriend’,
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TLDR post incoming with some sarcasm. Take with a grain of salt, drink plenty of liquids and know nothing personal is implied. Just an opinion. Disclaimer done.
The problem with the "memories" were they were created by Legion. What Rogue felt in AoX was all fake and when Emma Frost offered to remove the fake memories, Rogue declined. This bothered Gambit, then the harbor speech. Then Rogue used Gambit's words as justification to sleep with Magneto. These things happened in Carey's Legacy book.
And Greens is correct, the fans reacted and Carey reacted. He wasn't expecting blow-back from his story nor the anger over it.
Carey was the longest running writer at Marvel at that time and it was quite the feat. He was the darling. His refusal to give up Gambit and do nothing with him only angered G's fans. He would do interviews and you could tell he understood the character, knew about him and how to write him. He didn't for whatever reason - well we do know. Carey only wanted to write Rogue. Sound familiar? Because it should.
The percentage complaint is valid. Its just a rehash of another writer with a different spin where Gambit is a love interest and at this point no different than Magneto treatment under Carey's pen. None of that has changed. The preferred love interest is all that is required.
How does Gambit progress with these type of writers. He doesn't. We've got a proclaimed feminist writing Gambit and not being written with any substance. If this was the case for Rogue, the same writer could possibly have complaints and mostly because Rogue is female. Where is the equal treatment. Oh wait, there is none because men are just objects, only good for one thing. LMAO. See, how ridiculous this is?
Whats fascinating is nobody wants to call the writer out like they've done in the past with Asmus, PAD, Liu and etc. I picked them because even with their faults they did try to write Gambit. There is no trying here - but I will say, Dantay is right. Gambit isn't written like Rogue is, that is - his lack of characterization isn't hurting him. All he does is jump and throw cards and that doesn't hurt him.
Okay - well, that felt good.
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I kinda think KT’s version of gambit is more like Liu’s. She clearly likes and understands the character, it writes a somewhat ‘idealized’ version, the very emotionally supportive, perfect boyfriend and cool uncle ( for x-23) and occasional dispenser of wise advise (yes, I know Liu didn’t like rogue, that’s fine, talking about how she wrote gambit.)
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I kinda think KT’s version of gambit is more like Liu’s. She clearly likes and understands the character, it writes a somewhat ‘idealized’ version, the very emotionally supportive, perfect boyfriend and cool uncle ( for x-23) and occasional dispenser of wise advise (yes, I know Liu didn’t like rogue, that’s fine, talking about how she wrote gambit.)
Agreed
But Liu was criticized for it, and KT is not. She should be criticized for her treatment of not just Gambit, but Rogue too.
KT did nothing but bash Asmus' version of Gambit and she has taken almost all of his traits away except jumping and throwing cards.
Edit: I don't think Liu didn't like Rogue. Editorial wouldn't allow her to use Rogue. Carey had her exclusively at the time and with Magneto when Liu was writing X-23.
Liu wrote a romy story in a Marvel novel. While I can't recall the name of the story now, it was a sweet story for the couple.
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To be fair, isn't KT being critized at this very moment? I can point out half the board here seems to be doing that actively. Nothing wrong with that. I mean Is there someone specific you're looking for? I didn't read X23 but I don't recall anyone in the media "calling her out". If you mean fans, then that would put her, Asmus, KT, PAD and Carey all in the same boat. Everyone doesn't need to be in agreement, it's how you keep writers honest and challenge each other's ideas. It's healthy. It's best not to get too invested in what other people think. Except for clown pants... Never clown pants.
#NeverForget
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I suppose.
It's not unwarranted – KT's Gambit is not good characterization, in fact he's horrible. IMO. My goodness could he be any less of his character. Oh wait, we got a few more issues to go to see how low he'll go. I don't have romy goggles, them being together doesn't cut it for me. He's not the character that was created at all. What he is - is married. I like marriage but this romance has sucked from the get-go. It was for drama and nobody wanted that.
But the dislike here for the Asmus #3 cover was over the top. The book wasn't out and “omg – this is gonna suck”, without reading a god damn word was irritating. Issue one wasn't out.
At least with MMX - people waited to see what they were gonna get. We've had a five issue mini and we're 7 issues with ongoing and so far ... There is nothing to say about the book in regards to Gambit other than his marital status. Thats it. That's 12 issues ..... is it so unrealistic to want something more.
As for PAD – he had a cushy gig until it mattered to Marvel. While I don't think his Gambit was horrible, he wasn't great either. And when Marvel wasn't going to let him do whatever for whenever .. well it was what it was. People starting complaining by issue #4. I think those who are not liking things aren't being unreasonable.
Liu was not only “called out” for her portrayal of Gambit but her writing was called fanfiction which at that time was meant as a derogatory term. She got roasted by fans because of her interpretation of Gambit. You may not have been here. She didn't assassinate Gambit. She actually added to his story in X-23's book and it was the only thing feeding Gambit fans at the time because Carey/Gage didn't give a s*** about him.
People here and other places complained about whatever with other books but for some reason KT is exempt. My goodness if Asmus, PAD, Liu and anyone else can get some heat so should KT. She is not perfect and her book isn't the best thing since whatever. And you know what, stop with the Rogue centric crap (meaning her writing).
To clarify: I don't think KT is hurting G's character or assassinating him or any of the other things I've stated here. I do think, he's incredibly watered down version with the spotlight on his romantic and supportive side. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel there is more to the character than those traits. I want some story for him is all. By the time we get story for him based on solicits, the book will most likely be on the chopping block.
C'mon, the loudest vocal detractors is Remydat and Me. He's more eloquent about it and I'm a tad too harsh. I think most here know that and roll with it which is greatly appreciated. ;)
And as I always say, if you are loving MMX, awesome. Buy it, enjoy it. Don't let my opinion sway you in any way. If its your thing, then enjoy your thing.
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I suppose.
It's not unwarranted – KT's Gambit is not good characterization, in fact he's horrible. IMO. My goodness could he be any less of his character. Oh wait, we got a few more issues to go to see how low he'll go. This Gambit is awful. I don't have romy goggles to make this s*** good. It's not. He's not the character that was created at all. What he is - is married. I like marriage but this romance has sucked from the get-go. It was for drama and nobody wanted that.
Gambit hasnt been the Gambit that was created in a looooong time, no characters are they evolve with time and the different writers, people will point to UXM 350 as to the end of the Gambit we know and love but imo his characterization began to change well before that, Soon as Joesph showed up with Rogue he became petty and jealous and only ever seemed to side with Joesph to impress Rogue, even after he returned to the X-Men he still held onto his Jealousy towards Joe as seen in the Magneto War (UXM366) actually he was a dick in that issue even taking a dig at how Kurt lead Excalibur.
His role after he returned was nowhere near as prominent as before, but we did have his solo, however they mysterious character traits were gone , outside of the solo his biggest character moments were his return (UXM361), saving Marrow on the Skrull home world (UXM 370), giving the battle cry to the X-Men towards the end of their fight with Apocalypse (UXM377) then taking charge of a team of X-Men (UXM381) for that duration,
then we get X-Treme Gambit well written competent plays second fiddle to Rogue (which no one seems to complain about) he is not the same Gambit who was created but is close and that was the last good Gambit we got until X-Men200 , Austin, Milligan, Carey really ruined the character but to be fair with the first two they really didn't write any character in character they all sucked, Carey did to Gambit exactly what Claremont did during X-Treme but with less talent and more in your face about it and lack of Gambit kicking arse. Gage who i was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to went down like a wet fart.
Next up Liu a very Romanticized Version of Gambit but very capable it was X23's book i was surprised how much panel time Remy got and even in Daken's book he held his own , people complained about him losing to Daken but forget he whooped that boys ass until he was distracted, then in Astonishing he was the sudo leader and one stand out moment was when he sensed Iceman who was off panel when no one else did again this Gambit imo was fun and well written but far removed from the Gambit who was created. First time in a long time he wasnt a plot devise for Rogue.
Asmus i really don't get the negativity towards this run , it was awesome , a few A list villians would have been nice true but i dont think that was a choice for Asmus , his Gambit was the best version since the last solo, no where near the Gambit who was created but so much fun, his rogue and Gambit interaction was great and how i wish they were written, although my one nit pick is that Rogue asked Gambit to join the Avengers then bashed him in the assessment WTF
PAD just gave up simple as that, he had a long story planned, people weren't into it , forced crossover event, then cancellation loomed he rushed an ending and that was that, the whole book may as well have not happened , weather good or bad it really doesnt matter it has had no effect on any of the characters involved
since then we have had wallpaper Gambit in Astonishing, a low esteemed woe is me i have no friends Gambit in Gold 4 - 6 , avenging Gambit in Red 5/6 also squad leader Gambit in Red, also there is the minis and one shots too which have been good, the best being imo Storm & Gambit one shot,
all these traits are the Gambit we have , the Gambit who was created has long since gone , KT story is not good , the focus on Rogue is annoying but her Gambit is not the worse, hes no more developed than any previous incarnation but he also not faring too bad, he is better than the worse versions that we got
in terms of 616 Gambit i rank them
1. OG Gambit (1990 - 1995 minis included)[ unless we get a Gambit comic book fan from the early 90's writing an X book this version will never be seen]
2. Fabiens Gambit (1st solo) [also i know this was the same time frame as he returned and lead the X-Men but they are seperatly ranked]
3. Asmus Gambit (3rd solo)/ Storm&Gambit one shot/ Mackies Gambit
4.Claremonts Gambit Leader- Xtreme5. Liu's Gambit6. PAD Gambit/ Gambit in Red (does frig all but what he does do is awesome)
7. 96 + return Gambit up untill he becomes leader of the X-Men/ Layman's Gambit (second solo)
8. KT / Deadpool Vs Gambit9. Carey/Gage Gambit10. Austin Milligan Gambit
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Great post, man ... you always amaze me. You are a living, breathing, walking Gambit historian. ;D
Edit:
I loved Asmus run too. While not exactly like the G was when created. It was close enough.
You are right, Gambit hasn't been Gambit in a long time. It's like people get their hands on him, pick only the traits they want and thats all you get.
PAD pulled a Carey .... once the fate of the book was sealed. He not only didn't care, he kind of flipped off the fans.
re: Claremont's XXM and playing second fiddle to Rogue. It was always an issue for me. What surprised me most with that run is why romys thought it was so great for the couple. Other than living together and being shipped out after losing their powers. CC didn't really write them with positive relationship goals.
Liu did the romance thing, yup. But she did give him some feats as you've mentioned. Gambit jumped off a big building and didn't get hurt while X-23 broke her ankle. It was cool. I also liked her team building, she was forging friendships between her cast. I did enjoy that.
Your ranking looks good. Maybe we should created a rank Gambit through the years thread. :)
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Gambit hasnt been the Gambit that was created in a looooong time, no characters are they evolve with time and the different writers, people will point to UXM 350 as to the end of the Gambit we know and love but imo his characterization began to change well before that, Soon as Joesph showed up with Rogue he became petty and jealous and only ever seemed to side with Joesph to impress Rogue, even after he returned to the X-Men he still held onto his Jealousy towards Joe as seen in the Magneto War (UXM366) actually he was a dick in that issue even taking a dig at how Kurt lead Excalibur.
His role after he returned was nowhere near as prominent as before, but we did have his solo, however they mysterious character traits were gone , outside of the solo his biggest character moments were his return (UXM361), saving Marrow on the Skrull home world (UXM 370), giving the battle cry to the X-Men towards the end of their fight with Apocalypse (UXM377) then taking charge of a team of X-Men (UXM381) for that duration,
then we get X-Treme Gambit well written competent plays second fiddle to Rogue (which no one seems to complain about) he is not the same Gambit who was created but is close and that was the last good Gambit we got until X-Men200 , Austin, Milligan, Carey really ruined the character but to be fair with the first two they really didn't write any character in character they all sucked, Carey did to Gambit exactly what Claremont did during X-Treme but with less talent and more in your face about it and lack of Gambit kicking arse. Gage who i was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to went down like a wet fart.
Next up Liu a very Romanticized Version of Gambit but very capable it was X23's book i was surprised how much panel time Remy got and even in Daken's book he held his own , people complained about him losing to Daken but forget he whooped that boys ass until he was distracted, then in Astonishing he was the sudo leader and one stand out moment was when he sensed Iceman who was off panel when no one else did again this Gambit imo was fun and well written but far removed from the Gambit who was created. First time in a long time he wasnt a plot devise for Rogue.
Asmus i really don't get the negativity towards this run , it was awesome , a few A list villians would have been nice true but i dont think that was a choice for Asmus , his Gambit was the best version since the last solo, no where near the Gambit who was created but so much fun, his rogue and Gambit interaction was great and how i wish they were written, although my one nit pick is that Rogue asked Gambit to join the Avengers then bashed him in the assessment WTF
PAD just gave up simple as that, he had a long story planned, people weren't into it , forced crossover event, then cancellation loomed he rushed an ending and that was that, the whole book may as well have not happened , weather good or bad it really doesnt matter it has had no effect on any of the characters involved
since then we have had wallpaper Gambit in Astonishing, a low esteemed woe is me i have no friends Gambit in Gold 4 - 6 , avenging Gambit in Red 5/6 also squad leader Gambit in Red, also there is the minis and one shots too which have been good, the best being imo Storm & Gambit one shot,
all these traits are the Gambit we have , the Gambit who was created has long since gone , KT story is not good , the focus on Rogue is annoying but her Gambit is not the worse, hes no more developed than any previous incarnation but he also not faring too bad, he is better than the worse versions that we got
in terms of 616 Gambit i rank them
1. OG Gambit (1990 - 1995 minis included)[ unless we get a Gambit comic book fan from the early 90's writing an X book this version will never be seen]
2. Fabiens Gambit (1st solo) [also i know this was the same time frame as he returned and lead the X-Men but they are seperatly ranked]
3. Asmus Gambit (3rd solo)/ Storm&Gambit one shot/ Mackies Gambit
4.Claremonts Gambit Leader- Xtreme5. Liu's Gambit6. PAD Gambit/ Gambit in Red (does frig all but what he does do is awesome)
7. 96 + return Gambit up untill he becomes leader of the X-Men/ Layman's Gambit (second solo)
8. KT / Deadpool Vs Gambit9. Carey/Gage Gambit10. Austin Milligan Gambit
Huge and very awesome post.
Love your ranking!
Just will change KT to #7 and Layman to #8.
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I kinda think KT’s version of gambit is more like Liu’s. She clearly likes and understands the character, it writes a somewhat ‘idealized’ version, the very emotionally supportive, perfect boyfriend and cool uncle ( for x-23) and occasional dispenser of wise advise (yes, I know Liu didn’t like rogue, that’s fine, talking about how she wrote gambit.)
The huge difference is X-23 and the characters in AXM appreciated and respected Gambit for it. There was no history of them s***ting all over Gambit and him still going out of his way for them.
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While X-treme X-men had more Rogue focus, I think Gambit had his moments that at least showed some element of development.
1. Confrontation with Vargas.
2. Being one of Storm's trusted confidants.
3. Being necessary to power Khan's interdimensional portal.
4. Dying and having to deal with being brought back including being angry with Rogue.
5. Defeating Bishop without his powers.
6. Tricking Elias Bogan into thinking he was brainwashed.
I really can't think of a single thing from KT's run that is memorable from a development standpoint.
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Huge and very awesome post.
Love your ranking!
Just will change KT to #7 and Layman to #8.
I keep forgetting Layman had a book, and I own the series. Best Gambit for me was during Fabian's run. Early 90s with Claremont/Lobdell is a close 2nd. Mackies first run and then Asmus. Asmus did the best he could with the condition Gambit was left in + the limitations placed on him. I would say Seagle did a good job as well but that fool and other one tried to kill him off, so #&#& that guy.
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I keep forgetting Layman had a book, and I own the series. Best Gambit for me was during Fabian's run. Early 90s with Claremont/Lobdell is a close 2nd. Mackies first run and then Asmus. Asmus did the best he could with the condition Gambit was left in + the limitations placed on him. I would say Seagle did a good job as well but that fool and other one tried to kill him off, so #&#& that guy.
I don't know which fool though. It may have been Lobdell, he was the other writer.
Marvel released a short story written by Lobdell - it was old material and the art wasn't great but overall, an okay story. Lobdell had been given an opportunity to write Gambit. Gambit #25 (after Nicieza) was Lobdell's. Quesada cancelled the solo after the book was given to Lobdell.
While at the time people complained about Lobdell's take on Gambit in Gambit #25 - he was a ladies man in that issue. It was actually good.
The whole thing is murky at best.
(UXM350) - The rumor is, Lobdell would have killed him off and Seagle said no. However ... once UXM350 happened it was Seagle and Kelly on the two main X Titles (Xmen and Uncanny) and neither wanted to write Gambit (he had to be written out of the books for their runs). They stated that fact in interviews adamantly (they didn't want to write Gambit) and slightly mocked the character. Seagle and Kelly were forced to bring him back and then both left the company.
One other rumor is that one of the two writers didn't want their name attached to the UXM350 issue. In fact, the issue published was done so in a way where you really gotta look for the credits.
I don't know the truth there .... and its not easy to find out either.
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I don't know which fool though. It may have been Lobdell, he was the other writer.
Marvel released a short story written by Lobdell - it was old material and the art wasn't great but overall, an okay story. Lobdell had been given an opportunity to write Gambit. Gambit #25 (after Nicieza) was Lobdell's. Quesada cancelled the solo after the book was given to Lobdell.
While at the time people complained about Lobdell's take on Gambit in Gambit #25 - he was a ladies man in that issue. It was actually good.
The whole thing is murky at best.
(UXM350) - The rumor is, Lobdell would have killed him off and Seagle said no. However ... once UXM350 happened it was Seagle and Kelly on the two main X Titles (Xmen and Uncanny) and neither wanted to write Gambit (he had to be written out of the books for their runs). They stated that fact in interviews adamantly (they didn't want to write Gambit) and slightly mocked the character. Seagle and Kelly were forced to bring him back and then both left the company.
One other rumor is that one of the two writers didn't want their name attached to the UXM350 issue. In fact, the issue published was done so in a way where you really gotta look for the credits.
I don't know the truth there .... and its not easy to find out either.
Gambit was canceled along with loads of other X-books, the plan was to Merg Gambit and Bishop together with Lobdell writing unfortunately he messed that up with a terrible story and the rotating artists didnt help either
the short you mentioned was a Marvel Vault one shot, where Gambit is working with Spat and teams up with the Champions, terriable lol ,
Seagle was credited with script for UXM350, he was brought in to fix it as Marvel did not want Gambit killed off, Lobdell originally intended to kill him off but also bring him back later down the line,
Lobdell was the begining of the end for OG gambit his was the petty jealous version, like even when he was being cool he would throw shade, when he congratulates Sam after taking down Gladiator UXM341 Sam says "thanks sir" Gambit replies "call me Remy,Sam or Joeseph at the very least".......what? that makes no sense,
before that he did XM58 which had gambit fight Joesph, he attacked him from behind, then punched him in the face because joe called him Rogues biggest disappointment, Joe then takes Gambit down kicks him in the face at which point Remy uses his powers so MagJoe uses his, Rogue shows up and Remy's excuse was "he was once Magneto we dont know him enough to trust him" God i hate this version , Lobdell was not a fan he ruined Remy every chance he got, either that or he was a Fan like Carey was a fan of Rogue
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Perhaps I'm mistaken about Lobdell... Who took over X-Men after Claremont left?
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Perhaps I'm mistaken about Lobdell... Who took over X-Men after Claremont left?
sorry edit, your not mistaken
After X-Men 3 it was Jim Lee and John Byrne for issue 4+5 ,
6 till 9 had Lee on Script and Lobdell on dialog
10 they were joined by Scott Williams it was billed as a Jim Lee joint with supporting cast,
11 was billed Stan Lee production in association with , Lee, Lobdell, Bob Wiacek, Tom DeFalco, Bob Harras and two others
12 is where Nicieza came in as sole writer through to 45 the Sinister reveal in Seattle
46 Lobdell took over with the X-Babies, Remy and Bishop out and about
Mark Waid came in at 51 with the mutates on the train and Sinisters return
56 Lobdell was back, he and Waid were deep in the onslaught saga at this point
As for Uncanny around the same time
after Claremont left Byrne took over for a couple of issues then Lobdell took over UXM289 he was writer for a while actually and Gambit had some good moments under him The Phalanx arc, sensing Psylock when he was in a coma UXM324, destroying Sabertooth in the danger room UXM326, it was like he was bipolar towards Gambit from the introduction of Joesph untill the Shi ar arc his gambit was so out of character, during the Shi ar - the Trial we got a better Gambit
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I agree Dantay, that perhaps Lobdell was bipolar or waffled in like in regards to Gambit. Lobdell did write some good stuff for the character. But when he wasn't feelin' it we'll say, he wrote a terrible Gambit. We can actually pinpoint the good issues and bad issues with this writer. No consistency as it were. Unlike other writers whose style stays the same.
As for Seagle and Kelly - one other thing. Back then, you had to buy both books for whole stories. While there could be an extra character here or there, the teams were pretty much the same for both books. That is not the case now. Since neither writer wanted Gambit on the team, he had to go.
Now - you don't need to do that.
Dantay - I try to block the "Gambit & Bishop;The Sons of the Atom" six issue mini out of my mind. It was beyond awful, hell it should be used as material for my cat's box. Thats how bad it was. Georges Jeanty's art was good but Sean Parsons was not. The fact it was published every other in art was so jarring, it made the story worse.
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This book is too Rogue heavy and too Gambit lite. Its not balanced (yeah, I know broken record but its all we've had for far too many issues.) The only character being written in this book is Rogue - and that is all on KT. Her choice of story telling.
edit: guess I'll sputter from time to time. :)
TBH I feel like criticising KT for writing a Rogue-centric title is a bit unfair. Rogneto (and the last ten years of her emotional life) has made Rogue look like a vacillating basketcase. Gambit, for all that he's been written as a side character, has at least been shown as emotionally stable and mature. He doesn't need the amount of 'fixing' that Rogue does.
Also, I remember hearing that Seagle wanted to kill off Gambit by leaving him stranded in the snow, but editorial immediately retconned it.
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I agree with most of that, but I do think Carey meant for the legacy memories to push her to him, but then she was supposed to be not able to resist him after that, because of his awesome manliness or whatever crap. And from carey’s comments, the habor speech was supposed to be gambit being manipulative (dumping her, thinking she’d get scared and run back, but it would backfire on him.)
He definitely was surprised and seemingly quite bitter, that the fans didn’t like his super sexist story, I think he thought it would get a response like Scott/Emma did. That the die hard shippers wouldn’t like it, but the ‘average’ fans would love it because it was a new and interesting, but that didn’t happen. He even got to the point where in one of his last interviews he said the next writer would be coward if they broke up Rogneto.it’s like, dude at some point you just need to accept that maybe you wrote a bad story...
My interactions with Carey then were my first experiences of mansplaining in the wild. "Like, I know what a non-offensive story is and maybe you're the really offensive person?", says a male baby-boomer to a 20-something woman who's studied gender politics. Of a course a male writer would know what a real Strong Female Character would do much better than I would...
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TBH I feel like criticising KT for writing a Rogue-centric title is a bit unfair. Rogneto (and the last ten years of her emotional life) has made Rogue look like a vacillating basketcase. Gambit, for all that he's been written as a side character, has at least been shown as emotionally stable and mature. He doesn't need the amount of 'fixing' that Rogue does.
Also, I remember hearing that Seagle wanted to kill off Gambit by leaving him stranded in the snow, but editorial immediately retconned it.
See I disagree and it has nothing to do with loving/hating Rogue. Just because one character appears to be more emotionally stable and mature doesn't mean he shouldn't have more focus in a book that was advertised as a Duo comic. Instead Mr & Mrs. X is basically a solo book with a secondary character. And I can also argue that while Remy does appear more mature, I don't know if we can call him more stable because his failed relationship with Rogue was something that constantly plagued him for the last couple of years. It came up in the X-23 solo from a couple years ago, in the asmus solo, and in the R&G mini from a year ago. During that whole time his relationship always seemed to be on his mind or he was shown as struggling to move on (this may be more on the writers but it doesn't change the fact) much moreso than Rogue. The difference is he was just willing to face their issues head on while she was content with running from him and pushing him away.
And also there are plenty of comic book characters that have continued to get development despite being written as mature adults without relationship issues. Just because we've come to terms with our pasts or figured out our relationships doesn't mean we stop developing.
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Reference UXM 350
@Bigbarda - Re: Seagle ... that is why I said murky. I always thought he wanted to kill Gambit off as well.
Perhaps Dantay is right and it was editorial direction for the "no kill".
Editorial not letting Lobdell kill him off nor Seagle. Seagle having to fix the story in a way to remove him from the two main titles. That probably is the case since Seagle didn't want the character after that issue.
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RE: MMX.
I also agree with Mateo3000. Its not about like or dislike for Rogue. The issue is ... the book is billed as a duo book and yet only one character is featured, and you have to be invested in that characters issues.
The problem or issue is the writer lean. Much like Carey with his stuff. (Lets not get into male/female thing), the point here is that both writers have a slant and use it.
MMX should have been called. "Xmen: Rogue! Guest starring Gambit". It would have benefited from the Xmen name, the audience would know the lean/slant. It would have been more accurate and hard core Gambit fans would only buy what they want and it would be up to Rogue/Romys to support the book. (Not critique or sarcasm or anything, a genuine idea. It really may have been a better idea.)
IMO - I don't think its unfair to call this book as a character-centric title, but I do understand if that sentiment is felt as well as not felt. I'm not invested in Rogue's issues. I don't care ... fix them, sure. Not at the expense of Gambit.
Gambit's maturity and support is good for Rogue's character and certainly in Remy's personality. However Gambit is treated as nothing more than a writer created character for support in a solo book. The difference is, most know who Gambit is and has history as opposed to a secondary/made up character for story. IMO
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RE: MMX.
I also agree with Mateo3000. Its not about like or dislike for Rogue. The issue is ... the book is billed as a duo book and yet only one character is featured, and you have to be invested in that characters issues.
The problem or issue is the writer lean. Much like Carey with his stuff. (Lets not get into male/female thing), the point here is that both writers have a slant and use it.
MMX should have been called. "Xmen: Rogue! Guest starring Gambit". It would have benefited from the Xmen name, the audience would know the lean/slant. It would have been more accurate and hard core Gambit fans would only buy what they want and it would be up to Rogue/Romys to support the book. (Not critique or sarcasm or anything, a genuine idea. It really may have been a better idea.)
IMO - I don't think its unfair to call this book as a character-centric title, but I do understand if that sentiment is felt as well as not felt. I'm not invested in Rogue's issues. I don't care ... fix them, sure. Not at the expense of Gambit.
Gambit's maturity and support is good for Rogue's character and certainly in Remy's personality. However Gambit is treated as nothing more than a writer created character for support in a solo book. The difference is, most know who Gambit is and has history as opposed to a secondary/made up character for story. IMO
I love the book. I love Gambit and Rogue equally (well, I probably love Gambit more). But I definitely see it as being more Rogue-centric. I let it go for a while, but after reading Issue 7, I see where the complaints are coming from and it's honestly starting to get on my nerves a bit. Especially because I don't see this book lasting much (if at all) past 12. So, that's a lot of Rogue character development and not much for Gambit.
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bigstupidjellyfish gave permission for what he things about MMX via the other place.
So, because this is a new thread I wanted to leave a comment here so that it’ll be easier to find and I don’t spend, like, an hour looking for the old thread. I will post this once and then I’m going back to the Superman boards (where a surprising amount of people are cool with what Bendis is doing. I thought it’d be like me and five other people honestly).
I’m done with the X-Men until Rogue and Gambit get divorced. Or one of them dies, but let’s be honest, divorce is preferable to one or both of them dying. It’s not just that Rogue and Gambit are married, it’s that the X-Men are stuck in this really bland and s***ty nostalgia feedback loop. Look at Uncanny X-Men or how many pages of Mr. and Mrs. X are some kind of reference to a past moment in either the X-Men’s history or Rogue and/or Gambit’s history.
Like, I could at least concede that Rogue and Gambit was a competently made miniseries even if I have my qualms with it, but my god, the ongoing just s***s the bed. Uninspired coloring (which was a problem with the mini), reliance on lampshade hanging to cover up the usage of recurring visual elements, and then the plot point of “sugah, we can’t touch cuz mah powers” again but bumped up to eleven this time.
And then in Uncanny, Cyclops and Wolverine are back in the 90s suits for no damn reason and Larroca’s out there being a sexist ass to Rachelle Rosenberg (who we all love for her contribution to the Asmus/Mann run). Like, the art looks bad, Larroca, but that ain’t her fault and it’s definitely not because she’s a woman.
And a bunch of y’all just eat this garbage up!
Age of X-Man looks cool, because Zac Thompson and Lonnie Nadler have a respect for what came before but aren’t afraid to change things in a massive way and do things differently (also Leah Williams and Vita Ayala are involved, that’s cool).
The silver lining to all this is that I have more money to spend on better books, like the Justice League titles or Superman and Action Comics. And, that I have been working on a book of my own and hopefully someday I can break into comics so I fix this mess the X-Men comics are in and make things right.
EDIT: and if y’all wanna throw this on the guild feel free. I don’t go there much anymore due to how s*** it’s gotten for Gambit.
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Bigstupidjellyfish left X books after Gold 30 so I am sure he didn`t even read MMX to write something about it.
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My interactions with Carey then were my first experiences of mansplaining in the wild. "Like, I know what a non-offensive story is and maybe you're the really offensive person?", says a male baby-boomer to a 20-something woman who's studied gender politics. Of a course a male writer would know what a real Strong Female Character would do much better than I would...
‘Mansplaining in the wild’ lol, great phrase. How could anyone find, ‘he does terrible things to her, but she just shouldn’t think about’ offensive? Clearly you’re far too sensitive! ;)
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Agreed
But Liu was criticized for it, and KT is not. She should be criticized for her treatment of not just Gambit, but Rogue too.
KT did nothing but bash Asmus' version of Gambit and she has taken almost all of his traits away except jumping and throwing cards.
Edit: I don't think Liu didn't like Rogue. Editorial wouldn't allow her to use Rogue. Carey had her exclusively at the time and with Magneto when Liu was writing X-23.
Liu wrote a romy story in a Marvel novel. While I can't recall the name of the story now, it was a sweet story for the couple.
The book is X-Men: Dark Mirror
Hey Niko. :)
Though Iceman is my fave, I check out the Guild sometime to see what all is happening with Gambit. For people who never read the Marvel prose novels and are not too happy with what is in the comics now, I often point them in that direction.
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https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/mr-and-mrs-x-a-rogue-and-longshot-retrospective?linkId=62536336
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Of course, Rogue would never knowingly cheat on Gambit. However, Mojo appears to have wiped her memory as well. This may temporarily give Rogue and Longshot a chance to explore their own romance, even if it’s within the context of one of Mojo’s insane shows. And we can’t wait to see the sparks fly -- especially when Gambit finds out.
Seriously?
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So, uhhh, research is a thing of the past?
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https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/mr-and-mrs-x-a-rogue-and-longshot-retrospective?linkId=62536336 (https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/mr-and-mrs-x-a-rogue-and-longshot-retrospective?linkId=62536336)
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Seriously?
Wouldn't put it past KT to do this. Then she will throw Gambit a bone by having him flirt with Spiral or something to make it look like she is giving both characters equal treatment.
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Hardly anyone bothers with research, that would get in the way of their head canon.