Author Topic: Secret Wars  (Read 25458 times)

Offline remydat

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 1600
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2015, 11:02:36 AM »
Don is suggesting it's because Gambit is going to appear in a Fox film so Fox wants to downplay the character.

Although Alonso's answer is what I have been saying for years.  It's about the writers.  Not a lot of them want to write him.  The reality is if you Mike Carey brought him back because he wanted the character after he disappeared after BoA.  When Carey did nothing with the character, Liu wrote him mainly because she loved him from X-TAS.  Then he got a solo mainly because of the editor pitching the idea to Asmus who really wanted to do the project.  Not so sure about Peter David.

Point is unless you are Cyclops or Wolverine, whether you appear in a book or not is basically down to the writer.  Although I think the next several months will tell if Don is on to something but I think it is too early right now because the fact is Gambit has been suffering from not a lot of writers liking or understanding the character long before the film was announced.  Deadpool also has a movie and after the initial concern he was going to get blackballed by Marvel, he has like multiple books post Secret Wars. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:04:34 AM by remydat »
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline DonPriceTag

  • @theprattlp
  • Global Moderator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
  • Heavens to Murgatroyd!
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2015, 11:48:35 AM »
Why is Gambit such a no go Zone?. .  Is it so they can establish Rogue as a go to Gal with out him attached to her at the hip?

Its a long story, thats come to this. Gambit's popularity peaked in the 90s, which made him a top 5 or even 3 X-Man. He was even leading for a small time. Even after he peaked, he was still very popular. His appeal lasted after a couple of overzealous writers/editors tried to kill him off permanently. His use began to dwindle after the first X-Men movie. He was included in it. Marvel, not having their own studio at the time and not owned by Disney, decided to heavily feature the movie characters; Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Rogue, Colossus (even tried to pair the latter two at one point). Costumes and appearances were tweaked to mirror the movies. Those like Psylocke, Cable and yes, Gambit got put on the back burner. What didnt help was the fact that the next couple of writers werent Gambit fans, or just didnt have plans to use him. Some claim they didnt find him interesting, others were just so disgusted with the 90s, most characters that were created during the time werent given a fair shake. Psylocke, though an 80's character was most popular in the 90s, she was resurrected and brought back into the lime light due to being included in Remender's Uncanny X-Force. From that point she was almost an edict to be everywhere X-Men related. Cable stayed out of limbo due to being paired with Deadpool, however he fell into that pit eventually. Gambit became a carry-on bag for Rogue all the way up to Blood of Apocalypse. Once that train wreck was done, he was exiled into Limbo until he popped back up in Messiah Complex.

He stumbled around the X-books for a while, then got a solo and rejuvenation project to being him back up to speed. A couple writers requested to use Gambit and his new status qou but were blocked by Carey because he wanted use him to boost sales on his books, I assume (putting him on covers of books he had nothing to do with, pushing the idea of triangle between him, Rogue and Magneto), though he did use him AoX fairly well. So he went utilized for another year or so until his solo ended. He was then moved to be X-Factor as the lead character. That was short lived as it became somewhat obvious that the book was shifting gears and focusing more on Quicksilver. Most attribute this to Marvel's sudden need to push the X-Men line to the side to focus more on Avengers characters, ie, the ones they exclusively control. The book got cancelled and the creative team moved to a Spiderman book that basically sprang out of X-Factor. With no where to go Gambit has been seen in a handful of Secret Wars books, mostly dying. Many also attribute this to the fact that his solo movie had started to build momentum. No expects Marvel to give shine to a character with a movie on the horizon. Though Deadpool is getting a new book and team roster spot (he was killed off around the same time they announced his movie). But Deadpool sells books. I never thought they'd kill him for long. But for that redeeming move by Marvel, they also killed off theyre biggest bread winner in the X-Men, Wolverine (pretty close to Days of Future Past, and before X-Men Apocalypse or his next solo movie), only to bring him back incredibly changed. The codename "Wolverine" belongs to a woman now and  Logan is extremely old, hence they call him "Old Man Logan".

So to summarize Gambit is a not go because;
X-Men are seemingly being marginalized as a whole (theory)
Marvel doesnt help promote Fox movie properties (theory)
Current X-Men Writers arent interested in using him/ Marvel wont allow the writers that do want to use him, use him
Past X-Men writers ignored him for so long, younger readers barely understand him
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline red joseph

  • Horseman
  • *
  • Posts: 923
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2015, 11:58:23 AM »
Although Alonso's answer is what I have been saying for years.  It's about the writers.  Not a lot of them want to write him.  

Eh I've got to agree with Don on this one. Two of the three main x-men writers are Gambit fans and have previously expressed their wish to write Gambit, moreso then they have with other X characters. Obviously we don't know either way which is the truth, but I lean towards Gambit being a no go character or he's due to appear in an unannounced book.

Offline Dantay

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2727
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2015, 12:41:18 PM »
Why is Gambit such a no go Zone?. .  Is it so they can establish Rogue as a go to Gal with out him attached to her at the hip?

No its not, Rogue and Gambit have been re-established apart, and thanks to Asmus it was shown the two could be written as friends without angst, even if Rogue admitted to loving him, it wasnt a plot point. Rogue has been re-established in Uncanny Avengers sadly not to well, id rather have no mention of Gambit or have him in Limbo than getting the Rogue treatment as of late or since Carey

Offline Nekobaghira

  • Administrator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 13335
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2015, 03:08:19 PM »
Why is Gambit such a no go Zone?. .  Is it so they can establish Rogue as a go to Gal with out him attached to her at the hip?

Hi AeroSennin - welcome to the board.   :)

I don't have much to add, others have already stated most of what I think on it.  IMO - Rogue hasn't been a go to Gal in some time.  Remender has not done anything with her character other than give her a power up grade and regressed her base power.  She has Wonder Man's powers - giving her strength and flight but now she has to worry about her absorbing powers.  

Remender killed her off for a year, in a time travel story, or another planet type story. Which seems to be the only stories he likes to write.

While I think its great that both characters are re-established without each other, which needed to be done a long time ago.  Both characters are unique again and are not defined by each other, neither has really shined in a long time.  Once Carey left (and it can be debated about how he handled Rogue), she hasn't had a whole lot of attention given to her.  

Gambit suffers from the 90's love/hate thing.  He's not the only character with that problem but since we're his fans we notice it more with him.

I still hope for a team book for Gambit or something, but the climate at Marvel seems more different now than it ever has been.  
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 03:39:21 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline remydat

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 1600
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2015, 04:04:12 PM »
Eh I've got to agree with Don on this one. Two of the three main x-men writers are Gambit fans and have previously expressed their wish to write Gambit, moreso then they have with other X characters. Obviously we don't know either way which is the truth, but I lean towards Gambit being a no go character or he's due to appear in an unannounced book.

Which writers are you referring to and when did they say what they said?
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline DonPriceTag

  • @theprattlp
  • Global Moderator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
  • Heavens to Murgatroyd!
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2015, 05:10:58 PM »
Which writers are you referring to and when did they say what they said?

Well I believe Hopless was one. He wanted him for Cable and X-Force. He was denied because of Carey had claimed him for Legacy much like Remender claimed Rogue for UA. Something about it may interfere with what he had planned... Those plans never came fruition... I don't think so anyway because all he did with him was put him on the cover of two issues along side Rogue and Magneto... But perhaps he had no hand in that. To be fair, he isnt the artist.

Holpess even want to do a crossover with Asmus, but time didn't permit... All the while Wolverine was in 3 X-Men books, his solo and an Avenger book. About the same with Captain America LOL. Oh bias Marvel. You kill me.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline red joseph

  • Horseman
  • *
  • Posts: 923
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2015, 05:33:42 PM »
...and the other one was Cullen Bunn. I can't remember the specific quote but he's been mentioned as a fave character of his for a while.

A quick google got this result: http://www.thenewestrant.com/2013/01/interview-time-cullen-bunn.html

So that's two thirds of the main x-books. 

Offline Nekobaghira

  • Administrator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 13335
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2015, 06:26:04 PM »
Gillen wanted to write Gambit as well, can't recall the book he was on at the time.  He said he didn't fight hard enough for him. 

Hopeless gets his shot with Star-Lord & Kitty Pryde book.

I think Bunn would have an interesting take - certainly might be darker. 

Offline remydat

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 1600
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2015, 06:36:58 PM »
I remember the Hopeless stuff but he wanted him for Cable and X-force as far as I recall because it fit his plot/team.  Same with Gillen on UXM where Sinister was featured.  And as Neko pointed out, Hopeless has him in the Starlord book and for all we know it's because he fit that book better than a main book.

The Bunn stuff is the first I heard so I will grant you that but I seriously doubt that if a character is not being used by anyone and a writer really wants him that Marvel is going to say no.  There are a ton of Wolverine and Deadpool books post secret wars. 
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline DonPriceTag

  • @theprattlp
  • Global Moderator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
  • Heavens to Murgatroyd!
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2015, 09:02:52 PM »

The Bunn stuff is the first I heard so I will grant you that but I seriously doubt that if a character is not being used by anyone and a writer really wants him that Marvel is going to say no.  There are a ton of Wolverine and Deadpool books post secret wars.  

We don't know the inner workings of Marvel these days. These are the same guys that denied Asmus access to several characters (inside and outside of the X-Men) and even barred him from writing most of his storylines. These are fictional characters... They don't have agents, contracts or need to sleep. I can't fathom why you'd be denied access to anyone in the catalogue unless they are dead or about to undergo some sort of groundbreaking change. Carey stopped Gillen (maybe it was more Gage/editor at the time, but he didnt strike me as the forceful type...) and Hopeless from using Gambit, even though he BARELY used him, himself. Remender stopped the entire MU from using Rogue, though she did die momentarily.

As for the Wolverine and Deadpool stuff... Money talks. They sell too much to stay on the shelf.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 09:05:19 PM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Dantay

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2727
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2015, 03:34:42 AM »
Deadpool has one book that sol ok the others got canceled, he's not as profitable as Marvel would hope but he has his fans high up

Offline AeroSennin

  • Thief
  • *
  • Posts: 73
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2015, 03:43:40 AM »
As a thought on the secret wars.  Do you think it would have been an interesting twist to have a Gambit where in the ensuing chaos he takes full control of the guilds and goes black ops strike team in battleworld .  No need for him to be as restrained with the big bads out there and pretty much it being dog eat dog.  They could have made epic use of the asmus power up to play hit and run fights and pitched battles.  A chance to have him grow up and be a leader even if he doesn't like it.  I can't imagine him being passive in something this big.

Offline remydat

  • X-Man Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 1600
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2015, 02:12:39 PM »
We don't know the inner workings of Marvel these days. These are the same guys that denied Asmus access to several characters (inside and outside of the X-Men) and even barred him from writing most of his storylines. These are fictional characters... They don't have agents, contracts or need to sleep. I can't fathom why you'd be denied access to anyone in the catalogue unless they are dead or about to undergo some sort of groundbreaking change. Carey stopped Gillen (maybe it was more Gage/editor at the time, but he didnt strike me as the forceful type...) and Hopeless from using Gambit, even though he BARELY used him, himself. Remender stopped the entire MU from using Rogue, though she did die momentarily.

As for the Wolverine and Deadpool stuff... Money talks. They sell too much to stay on the shelf.

Well that's right, we don't know the inner workings at Marvel so we are both just speculating.

Asmus was denied characters that other writers had plans for as far as I am aware not because of some Agenda against Gambit as if that were the case then they wouldn't have made the solo in the first case.  The dude had been completely marginalized and was the last person anyone suspected was going to get a solo which is why it was a shock to most of us when it happened.

I am not saying you aren't correct, I am saying it is too early to read into this any more than what it has been for years now which is that writers and editors don't really like Gambit all that much.
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline DonPriceTag

  • @theprattlp
  • Global Moderator
  • X-Man Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
  • Heavens to Murgatroyd!
Re: Secret Wars
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2015, 05:07:52 PM »
Not saying Marvel has/had an agenda out exclusively for Gambit. At least not more than they do for the entire X-Men line. I never thought they'd "cancel" the X-Men. They make up more than half their comic book profit line. But I do think they don't want to help Fox out either. I believe they'll eventually make their characters look and behave differently than the takes we see in the movies. The characters they can do without altogether will just have to sit on the sidelines.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony