Topic: Gambit Watch

[Nekobaghira]

That's the thing; there is so much more to Gambit. Asmus proved in my opinion that Gambit can thrive away from the X-Men or exist on the outskirts of their world. But you know what Marvel does? Slice off pieces of him and graft them onto other characters, and take chunks of his lore and add them to characters that have absolutely nothing do with it. Or take what makes him the coolest and water it down so much, it becomes a running joke. I think it goes to editorial allowing writers that are still jaded by their love of the 80s and disappointment of not seeing their favorites in the X-Men series take out their frustrations on the characters they see as the reason. Basically ignoring the amount of fandom he and others of his ilk.

I was thinking about this ... the writers and their dislike for the 1990's characters and yet they create characters like Sharkgirl. And she is not called that in other places, far more derogatory in fact. I'm picking her out because I can't think of the others but not one of the new ones would ever get my attention. Yet, a character with a well built back story is treated like dirt. I don't get it.

This hobby is dying for me.

[DonPriceTag]

lol they rag on the 90s and then put a Street Shark on the X-Men!

[purplevit]

MR. AND MRS. X #7[/size]KELLY THOMPSON (W) • Oscar Bazaldua (A)Cover by TERRY & RACHEL DODSON• Stuck in the Mojoverse!• Rogue and Gambit are forced to relive moments of their past…but this time for the cameras!32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99[/color]

[andresa]

MR. AND MRS. X #7KELLY THOMPSON (W) • Oscar Bazaldua (A)Cover by TERRY & RACHEL DODSON• Stuck in the Mojoverse!• Rogue and Gambit are forced to relive moments of their past…but this time for the cameras!32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

The flashbacks were the best part of the miniseries IMO. But since it's Mojo they'll be dealing with, there seem to be more comedic elements to this. Sounds fun.   

[Nekobaghira]

I put all the spoilers and things related to the latest MMX4 in its own thread and relabeled.
Since the issue is out, best in its own thread.

[albahan888]

This is a long post, you've been warned. I'll probably edit for spelling and dropped words, hoping not so bad you can't get my meaning. Okay, on with the show.
 
 
That is a sad thing, isn't it? The only thing tying Gambit to the Xmen is Rogue? That should never have been the case and that is on Marvel. I've said this plenty of times, there is more to Gambit than Rogue. It's Marvel's inability to show the hero side of Gambit. And when they do tie him to Xmen, there is so much interference and ego from  all involved, you get nothing out of it.

 
Gambit's relationship with Wolverine, Iceman, Storm, X23, Jean and Cyke shouldn't be non-existent. He shouldn't need to be attached to Rogue to be a hero.

 
What's wrong is never actually developing Gambit beyond a solo or mini and actually building the friendships. One of my favorite bromance is Wolverine and Gambit  - they had a mini together and when they stole the Batmobile, I laughed so much. Liu had them go on a road trip and I enjoyed that too.

 
 
I feel like the mini was approximately 20 years too late or at least for me. The mini clean up should have happened long ago to make the series actually make sense now. Having ups and downs would have been tolerable had the clean up actually happened when it needed to be. IMO. The divide between the groups may not be a strong as it is today had that happened but that is speculation on my part.
 

 
I recognized I'm the flip side of a coin, no different from the other side in views. The divide has been around a long time and there will be those two sides who never see eye to eye on the romy thing. Just the way it is, I'm used to it. The band aid of the mini or this series isn't going to fix what Marvel should have done long ago.

 
You did bring up a good point, once this all said and done, it could easily be ignored for whatever the next writer wants to do.

 
As long as there are writers who want to pair Rogue up with their favorite (KT included), then Rogue is also reduced to love interest, her camp isn't wrong there. Gambit is also not in a good place either because once Rogue is moved to another book, he gets sidelined.

 
I want a buddy book, if this can be done well on TV, it really shouldn't be so hard for a comic book. I read romance novels for hea's and romance and its done far better than a comic could ever do. That includes sci-fi or fantasy elements in the stories. There may be some ups and downs between the couple but in general, better written.

 
In the end, those who love this series, enjoy this book.

I think my second least favorite thing that happens to Gambit also plays into his weird disconnection from the X-Men... the weird lack of trust in him by apparently anybody. It makes no sense given his history and how many times he's proven himself to be a hero outside of that dumb Death thing which stupid as it was still wasn't him trying to betray anybody but Apocalypse. So that's probably the other big thing that contributes to that along with what Don said about his best attributes being chopped off of him and divvied out and him being watered down into a goof who is apparently bad at the thing he's actually the best at for whatever reason. It's also weird with all the chances that old terrorist gets. That's why I like Rogue and Gambit issue 4 because it addressed that a bit. It has the only scene that almost addresses the crux of their problems particularly recently... the stupid no trust thing.


I would like to know more of when you think Romy was most broken for you since I felt like it was good in X-Treme X-Men and then Milligan and Carey happened. Having found X-Treme after having subscribed to X-Men for what turned out to be the Milligan run made me dislike his run much more in retrospect. I think XXM is probably my favorite run of Romy because there wasn't so much drama or no touching stuff to be exploited for cheap drama. I could be misremembering it though and I do tend to have rose-tinted glasses about things I like if I can.


I do feel like it's broken currently even if they're married because I don't think Rouge And Gambit did enough to fix any of their problems since it only 'addressed' the old news and not really any of the fresher trash from the past 10 plus years. That old terrorist was not exploring and he never should've been he's the worst person outside of her own 'mom' Mystique or Mr. Sinister to get with as seriously as it could be bothered to be written and then try to wave it off and get back with Gambit. It feels wrong and then after that she still went to the Human Torch and Deadpool and treated Gambit like some weird afterthought hanger-on who maybe she hadn't really loved and so it's just really hollow. I'm not gonna hold my breath given what Kelly Thompson has stated about addressing any of their more recent issues namely that she isn't gonna but I feel like there's an outside chance that the Mojoverse stuff could be used for that if they're reliving their past and that might be enough to get my interest in breaking my no money for Marvel stance again.


Anyway I also agree it's weird none of Gambit's other relationships in the X-Men are ever developed or used outside of Rogue and occasionally Storm. I mean a lot of them are dead or Avengers or whatever but even before then it definitely seems like no one knows how to or (more likely unfortunately) wants to tie Gambit to the X-Men and being a hero outside of Rogue. Thanks for the reply and hopefully reading this also sorta long response.

[Nekobaghira]

Hello albahan888,
Well thought out response. I enjoyed reading it.
My response will have some errors, I'll fix as I find them.


Re: The trust thing. That is a one a few sources of my ire with the coupling. I think in the beginning of the relationship as Marvel was working through this relationship, it seemed to be okay, as in tolerable in a new relationship. However, it was dragged on for far longer than needed in the relationship. At this point, the no trust thing needs to be addressed and put to bed. Its fake angst for the sake of drama. For some odd reason people who write don't know when to say when; when it comes to certain elements.

Re: Xtreme Xmen
I don't know if you are miss-remembering that book series or not but there are things that stand out for me. It's perplexing and makes my wonder about the "love" for it.  Based on some elements laid out had the series continued, I suspect there would have been some drama for the couple.

I thought it odd, that as soon as Gambit and Rogue said they'd work on their relationship, that they were shipped out the book or put on the back burner for about 4 issues or so. And outside of showing their house and what they're up to, there was nothing more than, oh hey - they're a couple and sometimes the walk on the beach.

The kissing in XXM. Gambit kisses a naked Storm. He's been helping her cope with her injuries and they smooch. Gambit gets a bit more s*** for that despite the fact he tells Storm that his heart belongs to Rogue. He's merely trying to give her an ego boost. Probably a better way to do that but ... is what it is. I won't even deny, he shouldn't have kissed Storm.

Rogue kisses Bishop, and then she wraps her legs around his hips. Now, there are those who like to believe she didn't do that. She did, I'll attach the image. She may not have been lip-locked when her legs were wrapped around Bishop but the bottom line ... that isn't a believable situation. Yeah, I know, she's showing off she can touch people. Inappropriate if you are really trying a relationship with another guy. I'm tired of people not admitting that she wrapped her legs around Bishop.

Re: MMX
The problem hasn't changed from what I can tell. Rogue was never written to apologize in the mini until the last issue. That was an issue for me and still is, she says all these things but gets a hall pass. It would have been more heart felt, stating it earlier. Having Gambit telling her, she doesn't have to apologize was disappointing. Yes, she did.

I'm with Remydat with the power issue, who cares. I know I don't. These issues are long standing, power and trust - its been the backbone of the relationship for far too long. There was 20 years of this sort of thing, give or take a year or two in either direction. It needs to move forward and in whatever direction but these elements are overdone.

RE: Other relationships for Gambit. Not touching all the stuff with Rogue as I've said before, its whomever the writer of her wants her to be with. It shows no growth for her. What should have been for her is for her to realize she still cared about Gambit but that was never written. The mini  and series aside, I mean the other books for which she had "relationships".

There is the blind eye to other characters and Gambit and it really is disappointing. There is an attraction between Polaris and Gambit (not revenge or any of that stuff for the record). And there is an attraction between Sage and Gambit.  That is in the books. The point being whats good for the goose, good for the gander, as the saying goes. It's not explored because only Rogue can sow her oats, and Gambit's rep already supplies the ideology without doing anything.


Re: Gambit and the Xmen
We both agree this is an oddity with Marvel writing. Whether his bromance buddies are dead or not, it is hard to believe he's been around the Xmen all this time and is still on the outside looking in .... its unrealistic.


In general, while I don't expect a ton of realism in comic books; suspension of belief is reserved for powers, aliens, sci-fi and fantasy. There is no room for that with relationships. In fact, it would be better grounded with those things if the relationships were actually written better or more realistically. IMO.

BTW - we all have our rose tinted glasses, it just depends which things we wish to see or not see. LOL

Oof, another long one. LOL

[anya]

Cc definitely seemed to be more of a hippie, free love type, as he didn't consider egg there of those things to be a big deal.


And with saying that, while a story should still make in of itself, it's hard d to just ignore meta reasons and just plain bad writing. Should a plot point/development from a bad story be kept around forever? Or should it hav some explanation, be dealt with and move on to better stories? Because the middle aged, European male writing the story thought the hot girl should be with the middle aged European male character, in story that really only made sense to him should that stand forever? Should the stupid horseman of death story stand forever? Obviously not.


I think KT's 'she got scared and ran because she was so inexperienced',works well enough for that. (Unless you want to get into a deep dive into abuse dynamics, which marvel doesn't want to do) It also works for explaining torch, Deadpool, etc. she was 'running' so nothing else lasted either. Yes, I know Carey was intending roguneto to be long lasting and serious, but because it was a bad story (and wasn't really 'selling') it didn't last and was mostly long distance (already started 'running', lol)


So I'm willingly to move on from that story, like I'm willing to move on from horseman of death, and psychotic bishop.


On the other topic of other relationships for Gambit, X-23 has been the only recent one and I love their dynamic. I hope it sticks around and I want storm (and bishop) back, too!

[Meliorist]

I like Sage's expression in the background of the Rogue and Bishop picture, she looks so disappointed

[DonPriceTag]

CBR put out another Gambit hit piece disguised as a Rogue/Gambit dissection.

https://www.cbr.com/gambit-rogue-weird-things-relationship/

[purplevit]

MMX 8. I think it is hands around him. My guess we will see his old lovers on it.

[purplevit]

Lame Editors

From KT Tumblr:
Anon: "Given Remy's supposed agility, shouldn't he have been able to dodge Deathbird's spear? It's not like she caught him by surprise as he was already looking at her and it's not like it's a gunshot. It just seems a little frustrating these days (and for the past couple years) that Gambit is only allowed to take down no name thugs/guards who have no super powers, unless of course somebody else (like the Shadow King) is controlling his body."

KT: "It’s actually hilarious you asked this.
I wrote for him to get skewered from behind. When the art came in I thought we should ask for a tweak because I thought it made Remy look less skilled/slower/less acrobatic than he is. Editorial disagreed. And it’s a gorgeous panel as is, so we left it as is.
Guess there are some folks that agree with me. Or at least one! ��
Comics are compromise. And they’re never perfect. Is what it is!"

[cajunpirate]

Anyone else see that Zombie issue Marvel just put out? There's a panel where Black Widow shoots a zombie who looks an awful like a certain cajun.

[Toadman005]

Eh, I don't see that as being Remy. Looks like just a guy in a brown suit jacket. The pink isn't the s*** but his guts.

[Toadman005]

Hello albahan888,
Well thought out response. I enjoyed reading it.
My response will have some errors, I'll fix as I find them.


Re: The trust thing. That is a one a few sources of my ire with the coupling. I think in the beginning of the relationship as Marvel was working through this relationship, it seemed to be okay, as in tolerable in a new relationship. However, it was dragged on for far longer than needed in the relationship. At this point, the no trust thing needs to be addressed and put to bed. Its fake angst for the sake of drama. For some odd reason people who write don't know when to say when; when it comes to certain elements.

Re: Xtreme Xmen
I don't know if you are miss-remembering that book series or not but there are things that stand out for me. It's perplexing and makes my wonder about the "love" for it.  Based on some elements laid out had the series continued, I suspect there would have been some drama for the couple.

I thought it odd, that as soon as Gambit and Rogue said they'd work on their relationship, that they were shipped out the book or put on the back burner for about 4 issues or so. And outside of showing their house and what they're up to, there was nothing more than, oh hey - they're a couple and sometimes the walk on the beach.

The kissing in XXM. Gambit kisses a naked Storm. He's been helping her cope with her injuries and they smooch. Gambit gets a bit more s*** for that despite the fact he tells Storm that his heart belongs to Rogue. He's merely trying to give her an ego boost. Probably a better way to do that but ... is what it is. I won't even deny, he shouldn't have kissed Storm.

Rogue kisses Bishop, and then she wraps her legs around his hips. Now, there are those who like to believe she didn't do that. She did, I'll attach the image. She may not have been lip-locked when her legs were wrapped around Bishop but the bottom line ... that isn't a believable situation. Yeah, I know, she's showing off she can touch people. Inappropriate if you are really trying a relationship with another guy. I'm tired of people not admitting that she wrapped her legs around Bishop.

Re: MMX
The problem hasn't changed from what I can tell. Rogue was never written to apologize in the mini until the last issue. That was an issue for me and still is, she says all these things but gets a hall pass. It would have been more heart felt, stating it earlier. Having Gambit telling her, she doesn't have to apologize was disappointing. Yes, she did.

I'm with Remydat with the power issue, who cares. I know I don't. These issues are long standing, power and trust - its been the backbone of the relationship for far too long. There was 20 years of this sort of thing, give or take a year or two in either direction. It needs to move forward and in whatever direction but these elements are overdone.

RE: Other relationships for Gambit. Not touching all the stuff with Rogue as I've said before, its whomever the writer of her wants her to be with. It shows no growth for her. What should have been for her is for her to realize she still cared about Gambit but that was never written. The mini  and series aside, I mean the other books for which she had "relationships".

There is the blind eye to other characters and Gambit and it really is disappointing. There is an attraction between Polaris and Gambit (not revenge or any of that stuff for the record). And there is an attraction between Sage and Gambit.  That is in the books. The point being whats good for the goose, good for the gander, as the saying goes. It's not explored because only Rogue can sow her oats, and Gambit's rep already supplies the ideology without doing anything.


Re: Gambit and the Xmen
We both agree this is an oddity with Marvel writing. Whether his bromance buddies are dead or not, it is hard to believe he's been around the Xmen all this time and is still on the outside looking in .... its unrealistic.


In general, while I don't expect a ton of realism in comic books; suspension of belief is reserved for powers, aliens, sci-fi and fantasy. There is no room for that with relationships. In fact, it would be better grounded with those things if the relationships were actually written better or more realistically. IMO.

BTW - we all have our rose tinted glasses, it just depends which things we wish to see or not see. LOL

Oof, another long one. LOL

Haha she didn't just wrap her legs around him, she locked them, and her crotch is right on top of his, with him looking shocked....that shock may be the kiss itself but it may also be a subtle suggestion she's grinding her cookie on his cod. The guy in the background seems to be surprised/worried looking AT where her butt is, implying there must be....something....going on there (movement/grinding, etc).