Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk

[Paneo01]

Thanks Zoks, hopefully so

[Meliorist]

I'm with you, Zoks, cautiously optimistic. Though, my tendency is definitely to give the benefit of the doubt.


So yeah, the entire Rogue/Remy interactions feels very 90s and it is probably supposed to, going by the 'if time is a circle' bit. More, it makes sense from my assumptions(!). I don't follow Rogue's character very much, so I don't know when she lost her powers and what she has been up to since but if DonPriceTag's forum signature is anything to go by, it is a huge change from when she had control of her powers. So her romantic options have dried up and there is Gambit, not only calling her his best friend(really though?) but also still interested in romance. Like Dandesun said, Rogue likes the attention, maybe craves it since she had to be so adverse to it for so long and now that she doesn't get it, she is feeling insecurity that is reminiscent of 90s Rogue. That could all be wrong because I haven't kept up with what Rogue has been doing.


While it definitely is Gambit putting in all of the work to maintain a connection, because from how it looks Rogue would have let the friendship die as well, it isn't one sided feelings but one sided effort. Rogue has given up, Gambit has not. Which had me thinking; Come on, Remy, let it go...go on a date with Sage or Psylocke...


I also think we deserved a better parting line on the cliff hanger

[Paneo01]

I'm with you, Zoks, cautiously optimistic. Though, my tendency is definitely to give the benefit of the doubt.


So yeah, the entire Rogue/Remy interactions feels very 90s and it is probably supposed to, going by the 'if time is a circle' bit. More, it makes sense from my assumptions(!). I don't follow Rogue's character very much, so I don't know when she lost her powers and what she has been up to since but if DonPriceTag's forum signature is anything to go by, it is a huge change from when she had control of her powers. So her romantic options have dried up and there is Gambit, not only calling her his best friend(really though?) but also still interested in romance. Like Dandesun said, Rogue likes the attention, maybe craves it since she had to be so adverse to it for so long and now that she doesn't get it, she is feeling insecurity that is reminiscent of 90s Rogue. That could all be wrong because I haven't kept up with what Rogue has been doing.


While it definitely is Gambit putting in all of the work to maintain a connection, because from how it looks Rogue would have let the friendship die as well, it isn't one sided feelings but one sided effort. Rogue has given up, Gambit has not. Which had me thinking; Come on, Remy, let it go...go on a date with Sage or Psylocke...


I also think we deserved a better parting line on the cliff hanger

It's intresting, Kellys argument is Gambit is actually showing great self confidence by being rejected by rogue yet not giving up on her. hmmmmm. I dont agree.

[DonPriceTag]

Kellys Explanation as to why she wrote gambit the way she did

https://twitter.com/79SemiFinalist

"Here's the thing I don't get...and maybe you guys (since I know you have strong feelings about this) can help me out (I thought about posting in the forum, but I think maybe it's a bad idea)...Gambit is in love with Rogue. Period. 1/?

"I see the harbor speech brought up a lot - and with good reason - it's a good speech and a GREAT character moment for Gambit to me - but that speech is not about saying "I"m moving on/I'm not in love with you any more" - that speech is "I am in love with you forever." 2/?

"But that speech is the OPPOSITE of an ultimatum. And seeing it that way HUGELY DIMINSHES Gambit. Like...seeing Gambit as a guy who has to throw down a gauntlet "choose me" Rogue or else! Makes him FAR LESS of a character than the guy that is SO CONFIDENT in who he is..."

".. what he has to offer the world (including Rogue) that he says. "I'm in love with you and I'll be here when you're done doing what you've got to do." The latter is a far more powerful and interesting person than the former. And more fitting to Gambit's growth as a character"

LoL that's from her, Purp and I conversation...

[Paneo01]

LoL that's from her, Purp and I conversation...

Great conversation. She was very clear how she approached Gambit.

[DonPriceTag]

The thread on Twitter is pretty extensive. She gave a lot of things to look at and I think we were able to get some points across. I brought Gambit being the one pushing but I also acknowledged that he wasn't the same in the beginning and the end of the book. I also brought up the fact that Rogue is a natural runner and KT said it's confronted in the series along with several other burning topics. I think we're in for something interesting. I think we're going to get the Gambit losing his patience being able to just air it all out. At least that's what I got from the "carrying the load" comment. Dams do eventually break.

[purplevit]

The thread on Twitter is pretty extensive. She gave a lot of things to look at and I think we were able to get some points across. I brought Gambit being the one pushing but I also acknowledged that he wasn't the same in the beginning and the end of the book. I also brought up the fact that Rogue is a natural runner and KT said it's confronted in the series along with several other burning topics. I think we're in for something interesting. I think we're going to get the Gambit losing his patience being able to just air it all out. At least that's what I got from the "carrying the load" comment. Dams do eventually break.

I think next issue we will see sneces from their past.
I think after that Gambit will realiza how much effort he made into relationship and will kinda let it go. And Rogue will realize how much he was doing and how much she missed.

[bark_no_byte]

And Rogue will realize how much he was doing and how much she missed.

I'm hoping so. It would be a nice change in character for her instead of her somewhat-dismissive attitude towards him

Great conversation. She was very clear how she approached Gambit.

Agreed. I really like how she took the time to explain her intentions and her POV of the characters

[remydat]

Kellys Explanation as to why she wrote gambit the way she did

https://twitter.com/79SemiFinalist

"Here's the thing I don't get...and maybe you guys (since I know you have strong feelings about this) can help me out (I thought about posting in the forum, but I think maybe it's a bad idea)...Gambit is in love with Rogue. Period. 1/?

"I see the harbor speech brought up a lot - and with good reason - it's a good speech and a GREAT character moment for Gambit to me - but that speech is not about saying "I"m moving on/I'm not in love with you any more" - that speech is "I am in love with you forever." 2/?

"But that speech is the OPPOSITE of an ultimatum. And seeing it that way HUGELY DIMINSHES Gambit. Like...seeing Gambit as a guy who has to throw down a gauntlet "choose me" Rogue or else! Makes him FAR LESS of a character than the guy that is SO CONFIDENT in who he is..."

".. what he has to offer the world (including Rogue) that he says. "I'm in love with you and I'll be here when you're done doing what you've got to do." The latter is a far more powerful and interesting person than the former. And more fitting to Gambit's growth as a character"

But that's just it.  She didnt write him as saying I am in love with you and I will be here when you are done doing what you've got to do.

She wrote him like Soule continually pestering her about a relationship which renders his whole speech bulls***.  If he really meant what he said he'd leave her the f**k alone and let her come to him when she is ready instead of continually begging her to get back together.

Gambit fans aren't upset that he loves Rogue.  We are upset that he was supposedly done chasing after her based on that speech, Liu's AXM, the solo and X-factor yet here we have him doing the very thing he said he would not do.


I am actually shocked she understand what that speech meant and yet completely ignored it in her writing thus far.

[DonPriceTag]

So... Ignore her forever, then? Again, I get what you're saying. I told  her there were parts that made my cringe. If it continues on like we saw in the first half of the book then theres a disconnect here but I don't think that's what's going to happen. She's pretty frank about what her plans are and Gambit did not behave on page 19 as he did on 5. It isn't easy trusting authors but so far I'm on board. I wasn't a fan of the chase, but I also can't see past the dinner invitation/harassment. The book was more than that.

[remydat]

No I assume Gambit is an adult and can have a conversation with Rogue without it having to end with him begging her to be together.  He did this fine in the solo.


Basically what Soule did and what KT continued in issue 1 was a complete betrayal of that speech which is why I had assumed she didnt read it.  The fact she did, understood the implications but still had Gambit begging Rogue instead of reiterating for example the message from that speech truly baffles me.

[AnimatedPhil]

I honestly don’t see the hate for this issue. And I don’t see how Gambit is begging...at all.


In fact, Gambit came across waaaaaay better than Rogue. Rogue seemed like a sniveling witch with lame excuses of why their relationship ends and her comment about having it on her shoulders. Gambit’s line about not having super strength was beyond perfect. It’s true. Gambit came off confident and caring and an amazing tease with Storm and Rogue. It’s actual growth for a character that has been long overlooked with shades of what made him so popular in the 90’s.


there is just too much negativity about this issue. I honestly enjoyed this more than any issue Asmus wrote which had Gambit be a physical punching bag for c list villains and have him fight a weird dragon thing.


And this is coming from a guy who hadn’t purchased a Marvel comic since Gambit #17.

[Miss Misery]

Okay. So I just finished it and...

....I'm fine for now. Except Remy acting too lovestruck. :-/ I've always  thought he got more out of the relationship than she did, so it makes some sense for him to still have Feelings for her...but...it's been a long time. Come on. I want him to get angry--Angry!Remy is one of my faves, and it's a shame we don't get to see him much, because we should. He forgives too easily.

I don't know.

Honestly, that's my kneejerk response. I gotta digest it.

[Zoks]

No I assume Gambit is an adult and can have a conversation with Rogue without it having to end with him begging her to be together.  He did this fine in the solo.


Basically what Soule did and what KT continued in issue 1 was a complete betrayal of that speech which is why I had assumed she didnt read it.  The fact she did, understood the implications but still had Gambit begging Rogue instead of reiterating for example the message from that speech truly baffles me.

I understand how it seems like he's begging her, but I think it's the opposite.  He's letting her know he is still interested but his patience is running out.  It'll only be a problem if it ends with no progression.

[DonPriceTag]

Well Gambit's pension for forgiveness roots back to his inability to forgive himself. He still blames himself for the deaths of all those innocent Morlocks. The sins of those around him pale in comparison to what he feels. His self worth still hasn't been addressed properly and is still an issue for him as of ANXF. It may also have something to do with how much he thinks of the women in his life. He may not believe he measures up. It could explain as to why we've never really seen him go after any of these topshelf heroines that are constantly around him. Perhaps he doesn't feel worthy?


Oh. That's deep @&#&.