Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk

[DonPriceTag]

I understand how it seems like he's begging her, but I think it's the opposite.  He's letting her know he is still interested but his patience is running out. 

Think the same and KT actually liked and commented on that notion during her, mine and purps conversation.

[Meliorist]

I think Gambit's self-loathing/ lack of self-worth goes deeper than the Morlock Massacre, yes it was a huge blow but not the first. As an orphan on the streets he stole to get by before he was adopted by thieves and when he meets up with Kitty and Storm after Antartica, he says; when all else fails, I'm a thief.
Despite how much fun he is shown to have on his capers, he doesn't hold his profession and peers in high regard. So it would seem for Gambit that he fails to measure up to the people/heroes around him, even at the most fundamental level. Every wrong decision, every wrong choice has been a validation of that opinion. It's made worse because no one displays the same faith in him that they do in Wolverine and Rogue (maybe Deadpool also?). Which also sets up an odd dichotomy for the readers because you get lines like Rogue's from this very book; People in jeopardy or not, Remy's not going to agree. Which shows they know that helping people is important to Remy but a belief that his self interest will win out

Ninja Edit; I am enjoying that Rogue is calling Gambit by name and not codename
Seems we have moved up from 'caught a bad case of Gambit'

[Spoonz]

Wow guys, went over to CBR to see what people are saying over there, got reminded about why I never post on that forum.  People are flat out vicious! About comic books! Good to see everybody here is keeping it civil even though a lot of folk aren't happy

Anyway I think I'll pick it up.  If I hate it then I hate it, if I don't then I don't, but it's causing so much discussion and debate I want to see what it's all about.


Edit: Can anybody explain to me the line about Gambit carrying the baggage himself and what he means by that?  I've got that stereotypical male disability of not being able to read subtext and I need things explained to me in black and white.

[Nekobaghira]

I read it, and let time go by. And I'm glad I did.

I don't hate the issue, I don't love it. Its okay at best. I don't like lovesick Gambit, and he shouldn't be acting this way imo.

Spoonz - I think Gambit is taking all the blame of their failing relationship. IMO - he is not all to blame but whatever.


What I liked about the issue was the art. The first few pages was a terrific reminder of other issues, of the relationship and the moments were in those issues of their relationship. It was done really well. Best part, no words to ruin those images. It was a fun stroll as it were.

I'm tired of self loathing/self blaming/lovesick Gambit. I don't want anymore of it, its fatiguing, its draining. There is no pay off. No thing to look forward to for him.

I don't know if he was begging or not, I think I see him as trying but after all the crap she's done, I don't know why he tries and I don't want him to try anymore. She isn't worth it.

[DonPriceTag]

Wow guys, went over to CBR to see what people are saying over there, got reminded about why I never post on that forum.  People are flat out vicious! About comic books! Good to see everybody here is keeping it civil even though a lot of folk aren't happy

Anyway I think I'll pick it up.  If I hate it then I hate it, if I don't then I don't, but it's causing so much discussion and debate I want to see what it's all about.


Edit: Can anybody explain to me the line about Gambit carrying the baggage himself and what he means by that?  I've got that stereotypical male disability of not being able to read subtext and I need things explained to me in black and white.

He believes that she's given up on them or at least it feels that way to him. That she abandoned the idea of "them" a long while ago. Which makes sense because... You know. She's been with other people, while he steals kisses from women and either gets slapped, blown up or they... Die.


And don't let volume fool you. Out of the several hundred to a few thousand folk that frequent CBR there might a dozen people that didn't like the book enough voice their disdain. It's just the same few having conversations with those who did. It's really all that surprising. The ones that I figured wouldn't like it, didn't like. Twitter is kind of overwhelmingly positive. Not just people repeating themselves but having conversations about what they liked and disliked, because you know, nothing is perfect. I liked the book but it wasn't without fault. I just don't let it effect me so severely. First issue. If things don't move, then it's an issue but from what I read and what's been said by KT on Twitter, I don't think that's going to be the case. The beginning part was cringey in terms of Gambit but the last couple pages... I mean the what the @&## was anybody expecting? I thought that part was pretty much in line with what we we're bound to get.

[wantutosigh]

Well, I read it and I can't say my worst fears for this series have been quelled. There were some moments I like, like when Gambit comments he's carrying the load alone. Because it's totally true and I just wish sometimes that Gambit would drop it and just tell her off.


I know people are commenting on how their banter is reminiscent of the 90's but I disagree and I don't think it works now. In the early 90's they'd go back and forth and it was fun because no matter what Rogue said, she'd sometimes smile or wink or something giving the audience a hint that she was attracted to him and was enjoying his advances. At this point, it comes off like she's always just treating him like a dirt-bag. He doesn't deserve verbal abuse from her. I feel like there is a lot of X-Men that seem to just treat Gambit like a dirt-bag. Hasn't he earned something from them at this point? I know people like the Storm moment but even she  came off like she was annoyed by him. And Rogue just comes off like she doesn't want to even be around him at all or deal with him in any way.  And it's not even because it seems like she still has feelings. She seems like shes moved on a long time ago and doesn't even really like him much. I don't know, I just feel like there is a long way to go from here to get me to start liking these two as a pair again. I kind of just wish Gambit would just tell her off and get over her. Gambit just starts to come off like an emotional masochist at this point.


So I still have my worries for this series and this first issue didn't do much to soothe them. Interviews or conversations with KT mean very little to me at this point until I see something. I'm still not convinced this is not just a series to portray a "strong" female and pump up Rogue to the detriment of Gambit. But we'll see. I'll read the whole thing and trust me, I do really hope this series turns out to be great.


Oh, and I really found the Deadpool conversation to be obnoxious on a few levels.

[DonPriceTag]

Ahhh... I thought the Deadpool conversation was funny. But it's probably because the only thing I liked about the DvG book was he and Gambit's back and forth. Kind of made me take that into account. How annoyed by it Gambit probably was by the very idea of it.


I'm just happy to be able to talk about Gambit again. Between this, red, Astonishing and the movie, this place can have some life again. For better or worse.

[purplevit]

Wow guys, went over to CBR to see what people are saying over there, got reminded about why I never post on that forum.  People are flat out vicious! About comic books! Good to see everybody here is keeping it civil even though a lot of folk aren't happy

Because this place feels like home for Gambit fans

[Nekobaghira]

Because this place feels like home for Gambit fans

You sweetie! 

[Sparta]

And don't let volume fool you. Out of the several hundred to a few thousand folk that frequent CBR there might a dozen people that didn't like the book enough voice their disdain. It's just the same few having conversations with those who did. It's really all that surprising. The ones that I figured wouldn't like it, didn't like. Twitter is kind of overwhelmingly positive. Not just people repeating themselves but having conversations about what they liked and disliked, because you know, nothing is perfect. I liked the book but it wasn't without fault. I just don't let it effect me so severely. First issue. If things don't move, then it's an issue but from what I read and what's been said by KT on Twitter, I don't think that's going to be the case. The beginning part was cringey in terms of Gambit but the last couple pages... I mean the what the @&## was anybody expecting? I thought that part was pretty much in line with what we we're bound to get.

The reviews from comic sites are overwhelmingly positive. A lot of high praise from even people who don't care about either character or their relationship. I was really pleased to see that. 


I really liked it, but I understand some of the complaints from the Gambit camp. I too feel that KT needed to hold back on some of Gambit's flirting, but I expected it, hopefully it'll balance itself out and Remy will have some self-control...then again Rogue will be running around in a two-piece in the upcoming issues...so I'm not sure how he'll handle that


I'm treating it as a fun 5-issue romantic comedy, it's supposed to be a little cheesy, it was always going to be relationship-heavy, I think we all knew that going into it.

[Nekobaghira]

Is what it is. Looking at it as a rom-com is probably best.

[Miss Misery]

A few more thoughts...

I read this thread before reading the issue and I was honestly expecting worse behavior from Remy...while I didn’t like it, it didn’t seem like he was begging. Really, I was (and am) confused, because the last time I saw them, he was sad-but-resigned about the relationship; now he wants to work on it as though they’re still in a relationship and have hit a rough patch. She’suninterested and he’s too eager.

And I agree with Don’s post about his feelings re. forgiveness stemming from the MM.

Someone needs to tell Remy that a best friend doesn’t treat you the way she has.

Also, I was really surprised to see the complaints about the Deadpool stuff—I do like that he was appropriately disgusted—since I thought it was plain she was trying to get under his skin.

[wantutosigh]

It's hard for me to just look at it like a fun little rom com considering the baggage between them. I just think it's high time that Gambit start being treated with more respect and dignity in these comics. Especially one with his name in the title. We'll see. Still early yet but imo it wasn't started wonderfully.


I know it's obvious to assume Rogue's comment was merely said to get under his skin. But why does he deserve that? That's really more my issue. Like has been said in here, Rogue has hooked up with and gotten physical with almost every man who's crossed her path over the last bunch of years. Without a seconds thought for Gambit. Any time Gambit gets into these situations he's made to feel guilty, or Rogue pops up to judge him, or the woman is killed. The comment just comes off like an attempt to hurt Remy or knock him down a few pegs which I don't feel is necessary at this point. She just comes off as cold and if they are going to get me invested in the re connection of their relationship then I have to see it from her too and not just on his end.

[Miss Misery]

I know it's obvious to assume Rogue's comment was merely said to get under his skin. But why does he deserve that? That's really more my issue. Like has been said in here, Rogue has hooked up with and gotten physical with almost every man who's crossed her path over the last bunch of years. Without a seconds thought for Gambit. Any time Gambit gets into these situations he's made to feel guilty, or Rogue pops up to judge him, or the woman is killed. The comment just comes off like an attempt to hurt Remy or knock him down a few pegs which I don't feel is necessary at this point. She just comes off as cold and if they are going to get me invested in the re connection of their relationship then I have to see it from her too and not just on his end.

My surprise was just that people took it so seriously, and I get why it wasn't liked. And I agree with you 100%--the problem with Rogue and Gambit hooking up with other people is not only that double standard, but also because writers and editors won't LET them be in relationships that are normal. Rogue has been put with every random guy and we're supposed to just deal with it, while Gambit hooks up with people off-panel, or has a rushed-awkward kiss or like you said, the lady dies. Her behavior in this first issue is why I'm currently a former Romy shipper. It's clear she doesn't want anything to do with him whatsoever. So him wanting to spend time with her and work on their relationship--a relationship that ended, what, over a decade ago?--so seeing him do that at the beginning didn't make sense. I've been out of the loop for a few years, but from what I understand, nothing significant has happened in my time away.

[Zoks]

Just a reminder for everybody commenting on the timeline of their breakup.  Marvel operates on a compressed timeline, so what has been 10 years for us is probably a year or two for them.