Poll

What is the true purpose of this mini?

To explore and solidify their relationship.
To officially split them apart.
Neither, just a fun adventure.

Author Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk  (Read 111462 times)

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #435 on: February 19, 2018, 04:02:36 PM »

I accept the concept of "hooking up" because I know its a real thing that people of all ages do, its just part of reality. Heck, I've done it. However, I find odd when people refer to it as "mature". I think its actually the opposite. What we call "hooking up" is nothing more than giving into our baser instincts and physical needs. Children do that on a regular basis. Being able to shut off emotional attachment to another person in favor of fleeting physical pleasure... Not too different than throwing a temper tantrum in a super market (I'm from a Jamaican family. Did that exactly one time with my mom and from what I'm told it never happened again. I learn quick.). I think hooking up is more about letting go of maturity and living in the moment, which IMO is very teenager-y. I guess the "mature" part is being to compartmentalize the emotion afterwards. Not allowing oneself to be overwhelmed or even effected by them just to it again, quite often with another person. In a way is a bit sociopath-ic if you think about it LOL. That can be very liberating and attractive for someone as pent-up as Storm. She has to maintain constant control of her facets or the nature of powers can reap havoc on the earth. We saw this after Wolverine died. Beast (I think it was Beast) had to take her into orbit just so she could breakdown and cry. Just my thoughts.


Maybe an unpopular view but I always saw Gambits hook up behaviour as him trying to fill a whole in his life based on the lack of real connection growing up and a certain level of covering for an insecurity. These woman come and go with  no real affection. But on the few rime he opens uo its like we get to see a real piece of him behind the emotional armour it gives his worldly waya a touch of innocence and moves him past just being a douche bag womaniser. Which is why with a real connection to Rogue he wont let go it means too much.

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #436 on: February 19, 2018, 05:14:23 PM »
Sales have been down at marvel, they have said that. They've been down for about two years? They did not say by how much or any details past that. But even Deadpool's been down (probably over extended) Marvel has also said that mini series always sell lower than ongoing sales, that's why they keep publishing so many ongoings even if they seem like mini series.


Great that just provides excuses for the fact the book is not selling enough to claim iconic status.  Sometimes there just isn't enough data to support a claim.  There is simply not enough data to claim Romy is iconic.  Sorry that is just the truth.
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #437 on: February 19, 2018, 05:17:21 PM »

Maybe an unpopular view but I always saw Gambits hook up behaviour as him trying to fill a whole in his life based on the lack of real connection growing up and a certain level of covering for an insecurity. These woman come and go with  no real affection. But on the few rime he opens uo its like we get to see a real piece of him behind the emotional armour it gives his worldly waya a touch of innocence and moves him past just being a douche bag womaniser. Which is why with a real connection to Rogue he wont let go it means too much.


Don't know that Gambit has ever been a womanizer.  A ladies man is different than a womanizer.  And the only relationship he had that was based on deceit was Genevieve which still had nothing to do with him being a womanizer and more to do with the fact he was contracted to do a job.  Womanizer to me would be someone that routinely misled women about the nature of his intentions. 
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline Sparta

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #438 on: February 19, 2018, 05:44:23 PM »

Great that just provides excuses for the fact the book is not selling enough to claim iconic status.  Sometimes there just isn't enough data to support a claim.  There is simply not enough data to claim Romy is iconic.  Sorry that is just the truth.


I've seen a Batman/Catwoman mini series debut at 23,000 way back in 2004, and a Superman/Lois mini debut at 35,000 in 2015, 'Spider-man Loves Mary Jane' debuted at 11,000 in 2006. I'm not saying Rogue/Gambit are more iconic than the ones I've just named, but in terms of popularity they hold their own, and they are more prominent than a lot of other pairings in both Marvel and DC.


And sales are well down on all X-Books, I was expecting somewhere between 35 - 45 thousand for R&G.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 05:52:29 PM by Sparta »

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #439 on: February 19, 2018, 08:15:13 PM »

Don't know that Gambit has ever been a womanizer.  A ladies man is different than a womanizer.  And the only relationship he had that was based on deceit was Genevieve which still had nothing to do with him being a womanizer and more to do with the fact he was contracted to do a job.  Womanizer to me would be someone that routinely misled women about the nature of his intentions.


A womanizer does not necessarily have to be deceptive. Oxford dictionary defines it as such

Womanizer
(British womanizer)
NOUN derogatory
A man who engages in numerous casual sexual affairs with women.
It really seems to imply a casual shallowness about self satisfaction. Hence the derogatory nature. There are i am sure more than a few broken hearts out there. But yes with out any real lasting connection it is exactly what he is. You could argue if everyone is happy what does it matter but there are likely more than a few instances of hurt caused because what he perceives as without attachment mat not be reciprocal humans are fickle like that. Hence why its poor form to carelessly enter into ships they have a capacity to change as one partners feeling may not be the same. Probably why we from on it and the hurt it can cause. Look at the disappointment frenzy showed and that was just a kiss bad as it was. Probably the risk of his intimate ship with Storm if she felt more attached and he shoots off after Rogue again it could create issues. and this stuff gets convoluted when emotions get involved.


 Edit: I tried to fix, should be easy for you to edit when you want. I'll fix the other post too. Neko
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:46:39 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #440 on: February 19, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »

A womanizer does not necessarily have to be deceptive. Oxford dictionary defines it as such
 

Womanizer
(British womanizer)
NOUN derogatory
A man who engages in numerous casual sexual affairs with women.
It really seems to imply a casual shallowness about self satisfaction. Hence the derogatory nature. There are i am sure more than a few broken hearts out there. But yes with out any real lasting connection it is exactly what he is. You could argue if everyone is happy what does it matter but there are likely more than a few instances of hurt caused because what he perceives as without attachment mat not be reciprocal humans are fickle like that. Hence why its poor form to carelessly enter into ships they have a capacity to change as one partners feeling may not be the same. Probably why we from on it and the hurt it can cause. Look at the disappointment frenzy showed and that was just a kiss bad as it was. Probably the risk of his intimate ship with Storm if she felt more attached and he shoots off after Rogue again it could create issues. and this stuff gets convoluted when emotions get involved.


Appologies format exploded when i pulled accross the quote.


I also wanted to add to complicate matters for Remy is his hypnotic charm. Which may make you wonder even if by accident who got tipped over into a fling with him over it or felt more about the fling than he did.


I think that is aslo whay made Romy so great for him as it added some depth to his relations with woman and showed his vulnerabiltiy and that he isnt a one note wonder and a capacity to love more than just himself. I worry what happens if he just goes ona woman spree he loses a bit of his humanity that we got to see there and regresses him.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:50:14 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #441 on: February 19, 2018, 08:51:48 PM »
Hey AeroSennin - it happens sometimes with the site, especially with the copy and paste from other sites. I did my best fix it up, but should be easier for you to edit if you feel the need to do so. :)

Crazy stuff.  ;D

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #442 on: February 20, 2018, 12:37:49 AM »

I've seen a Batman/Catwoman mini series debut at 23,000 way back in 2004, and a Superman/Lois mini debut at 35,000 in 2015, 'Spider-man Loves Mary Jane' debuted at 11,000 in 2006. I'm not saying Rogue/Gambit are more iconic than the ones I've just named, but in terms of popularity they hold their own, and they are more prominent than a lot of other pairings in both Marvel and DC.


And sales are well down on all X-Books, I was expecting somewhere between 35 - 45 thousand for R&G.


I didn't say they were not popular.  I said I don't know how you can claim they are iconic based on this book. 
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #443 on: February 20, 2018, 12:47:46 AM »

A womanizer does not necessarily have to be deceptive. Oxford dictionary defines it as such

Womanizer
(British womanizer)
NOUN derogatory
A man who engages in numerous casual sexual affairs with women.
It really seems to imply a casual shallowness about self satisfaction. Hence the derogatory nature. There are i am sure more than a few broken hearts out there. But yes with out any real lasting connection it is exactly what he is. You could argue if everyone is happy what does it matter but there are likely more than a few instances of hurt caused because what he perceives as without attachment mat not be reciprocal humans are fickle like that. Hence why its poor form to carelessly enter into ships they have a capacity to change as one partners feeling may not be the same. Probably why we from on it and the hurt it can cause. Look at the disappointment frenzy showed and that was just a kiss bad as it was. Probably the risk of his intimate ship with Storm if she felt more attached and he shoots off after Rogue again it could create issues. and this stuff gets convoluted when emotions get involved.


 Edit: I tried to fix, should be easy for you to edit when you want. I'll fix the other post too. Neko

As your definition notes the term is derogatory so yes it does imply some element of one being misled as if they were happy then they would have no reason to use the word womanizer.  They would instead say ladies man as there are no hurt feelings.

And there is no real evidence of Gambit being a womanizer.  He has been with Rogue for much of his time with the X-men and in fact Rogue has had more relationships with known characters than Gambit.

Nor are the Frenzy or Storm relationships evidence of his womanizing because he refrained from progressing those relationships.  An actual womanizer would have actually slept with both of them.  Gambit did not.  Not to mention Frenzy only kissed him to try and get over Cyclops whom she was in love with in the Age of X storyline just as Gambit could be said to be trying to get over Rogue.  So that was not an act of womanizing.  It was two people trying to forget about an ex.

So I think the label doesn't fit.  Gambit simply hasn't slept with enough women over the years for this to qualify and is being judged more harshly than women doing the very same thing.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 12:51:17 AM by remydat »
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #444 on: February 20, 2018, 01:50:35 AM »
As your definition notes the term is derogatory so yes it does imply some element of one being misled as if they were happy then they would have no reason to use the word womanizer.  They would instead say ladies man as there are no hurt feelings.

And there is no real evidence of Gambit being a womanizer.  He has been with Rogue for much of his time with the X-men and in fact Rogue has had more relationships with known characters than Gambit.

Nor are the Frenzy or Storm relationships evidence of his womanizing because he refrained from progressing those relationships.  An actual womanizer would have actually slept with both of them.  Gambit did not.  Not to mention Frenzy only kissed him to try and get over Cyclops whom she was in love with in the Age of X storyline just as Gambit could be said to be trying to get over Rogue.  So that was not an act of womanizing.  It was two people trying to forget about an ex.

So I think the label doesn't fit.  Gambit simply hasn't slept with enough women over the years for this to qualify and is being judged more harshly than women doing the very same thing.


Derogatory could also be as a result of social constructs frowning upon the behaviour. Take slut as a similar example it is derogitory with a similar definition with no deciept involved.


It is such a fickle thing so much grey blurring black. But the thing with casual flings are at somepoint you are bound to have sever emotional casualties. Esp if one is more invested, heck he became one to rogueneto. I tend to believe one should be caeeful with others hearts because you never know when it wont just be a casual thing to another. Heck it might start that way and explode horribly how many friends with benefits relations exploded for exactly that reason someone became more invested.


With Storm it may not be there but when she acknowldeged that it would likely upset Rogue it implies she maybe felt more about it than a passing pash. I think if they started sleeping together there is tonnes of room realistically for it to imploded and leave chaos in its wake.


Frenzy is a lesser example she was clearly disappointed when she left if it had been more then what when he wasnt invested fortunately he didnt take advantage. But he was rruely loving in that moment he could have rebounded with her and left her hurt maybe you could write it loke its all sunshine and daisies but may not make sense.


Any way it good to debate alternate world views.

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #445 on: February 20, 2018, 01:51:57 AM »
Hey AeroSennin - it happens sometimes with the site, especially with the copy and paste from other sites. I did my best fix it up, but should be easier for you to edit if you feel the need to do so. :)

Crazy stuff.  ;D


Thanks for the effort Neko i'll leave it as is seeing as its been reaponded to. Much appreciated.

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #446 on: February 20, 2018, 08:19:07 AM »

Derogatory could also be as a result of social constructs frowning upon the behaviour. Take slut as a similar example it is derogitory with a similar definition with no deciept involved.


It is such a fickle thing so much grey blurring black. But the thing with casual flings are at somepoint you are bound to have sever emotional casualties. Esp if one is more invested, heck he became one to rogueneto. I tend to believe one should be caeeful with others hearts because you never know when it wont just be a casual thing to another. Heck it might start that way and explode horribly how many friends with benefits relations exploded for exactly that reason someone became more invested.


With Storm it may not be there but when she acknowldeged that it would likely upset Rogue it implies she maybe felt more about it than a passing pash. I think if they started sleeping together there is tonnes of room realistically for it to imploded and leave chaos in its wake.


Frenzy is a lesser example she was clearly disappointed when she left if it had been more then what when he wasnt invested fortunately he didnt take advantage. But he was rruely loving in that moment he could have rebounded with her and left her hurt maybe you could write it loke its all sunshine and daisies but may not make sense.


Any way it good to debate alternate world views.


But there was no fling.  That is the point.  He did nothing more than kiss Storm and Frenzy and in both instances he did not do so because he was intending to start some sort of casual fling.


So while I understand your overall point it simply doesn't apply to those situations precisely because in both it was clear there was no attempt to initiate a fling.  The precise reason why there was no fling is because unlike a womanizer Gambit refused to let things progress further.
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #447 on: February 20, 2018, 11:42:22 AM »
Thanks for the effort Neko i'll leave it as is seeing as its been reaponded to. Much appreciated.

No prob. This happens to Purp all the time.  ;)

All I do is take out the font/size/ or any other tag that somehow lingered. :)

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #448 on: February 20, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »
If we use Xmen Legacy written by Carey as an indicator of what Gambit gets out of the relationship with Rogue and its not about sex. It had never been about that with him. I believe he had Magneto tell Rogue that she ennobled Gambit. To a degree, certainly from the beginning, I think she did do that.

At this point, while he'll do shady things, he ends up doing the right things in the end. I like his morally grey.

As for womanizing, I never saw him as a womanizer. The whole ladies man thing was women flocking to him or wanting to be with him. Not so much of him actually following up on all of it, some yes but not all. He never came across as a "user" as it were in my eyes.

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #449 on: February 20, 2018, 02:32:55 PM »
Hey... lets get something straight... Gambit's the most non-woman getting ladiesman, womanizer-whatever in the history of whatevers. Don't go doing Marvel's job for them and scratch notches on his lonely headboard.  :idiot2:
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony