Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk

[remydat]

The thing is the fix is simple.  You don't need to go into all the reasons why she slept with Mags as God knows I don't know how you justify it.

All that would be needed was for Rogue to say, "Gambit, I am sorry for sleeping with Mags.  I don't know what I was thinking and I know it was unfair to you and to us really considering what he did to us."

That's it.  That is literally all you have to do and it would at least be her owning it.  Gambit could then simply apologize for Death which he still hasn't apologized for and we can call it a day.

Instead, we get this bs, "I was just exploring the guy that ruined our relationship.  No biggie."  Come one, if I was trying to get back with an ex and she pulled that bs, I would roll my eyes and tell her to take a hike.

[DonPriceTag]

Well this turned out better than I hoped. Love it. We're the guild. Shouldn't be afraid of offending someone. My motto is "$&$& yo feeling's, tell me how you feel"... Well that made more sense in my head. Replace the last "feel" with "opinion".

[albahan888]

Here is the thing with a fictional character's fault. It is theirs to own because they are the ones used in the story. We're a small group, CBR is small too btw - and we're more in the know as it were when it comes to writers, and artists. Joe or Jane Doe off the street who is buying for no reason other than something to read, may not know who wrote what or care who wrote it. It will still come down to the character in the end.

That's my point though. Rogue can say that and that should (in my opinion) be the case but (again without direct context/evidence) 'it was never as simple as not loving you, as not choosing you' I don't think is really how she's been written as far as I can tell since the Magneto mess. I mean I guess she's right that it isn't that simple but I don't agree with the other part of that statement given what admittedly little I've seen of her attitudes about it especially since she's been an Avenger.

The thing is the fix is simple.  You don't need to go into all the reasons why she sleep with Mags as God knows I don't know how you justify it.


All that would be needed was for Rogue to say, "Gambit, I am sorry for sleeping with Mags.  I don't know what I was thinking and I know it was unfair to you and to us really considering what he did to us."


That's it.  That is literally all you have to do and it would at least be here owning it.  Gambit could then simply apologize for Death which he still hasn't apologized for and we can call it a day.


Instead, we get this bs, "I was just exploring the guy that ruined our relationship.  No biggie."  Come one, if I was trying to get back with an ex and she pulled that bs, I would roll my eyes and tell her to take a hike.

I agree. You really can't explain it so just admit it was at least a mistake if you're apparently gonna hang the relationship problems on the Trial of Gambit which was done by Magneto. It seems simple... bad things happened in Antarctica and Magneto was directly responsible for most of them but apparently Gambit being physically and mentally altered by Apocalypse into Death was too far and whatever other Carey BS so she went to that old terrorist and that was fine because now it was just 'exploring' or whatever was actually said in this issue. 


Oh well. I guess that's the biggest problem with Romy is it isn't universally (or barely at all) supported in Marvel so it's not treated well and at this point there's so much crap piled on top of it even the seemingly one writer at Marvel that does appear to care about it won't or can't even try to really clean it off.

[DonPriceTag]

The thing is the fix is simple.  You don't need to go into all the reasons why she slept with Mags as God knows I don't know how you justify it.

All that would be needed was for Rogue to say, "Gambit, I am sorry for sleeping with Mags.  I don't know what I was thinking and I know it was unfair to you and to us really considering what he did to us."

That's it.  That is literally all you have to do and it would at least be here owning it.  Gambit could then simply apologize for Death which he still hasn't apologized for and we can call it a day.

Instead, we get this bs, "I was just exploring the guy that ruined our relationship.  No biggie."  Come one, if I was trying to get back with an ex and she pulled that bs, I would roll my eyes and tell her to take a hike.

Something to take into account. All writers don't have the same amount of freedom as others. Something we know. Their stories have to be approved and signed off. Only a handful of them like Bendis and for a little while Remender have/had more of a free hand. For instance there are several story lines that come to mind that I doubt will ever really be brought up again. One, Ms. Marvel being impregnated by the Beyonder. Two Antman beating up Wasp. There are a few more but those two mostly because of sociological implications and just overall distasteful for business.


Those are abandoned storylines, from how Marvel handled Rogue and Magneto, and even Deathbit, I don't think it'll ever be head on addressed unless it's absolutely necessary. Both storylines were ultimately ignored and then written off quietly.


As for in character issues. I see the main theme here being trust it lack thereof, leading to betrayal. Ive always thought Gambit should have a huge problem with Magneto. Hes a thorn in his side in several realities. The only time we've seen him make mention of it was during X-factor. I loved that. But outside of that one instance Gambit has never even brought up his distaste of the man. Something I've always wanted to be laid out. One of the reasons Legacy never made sense to me, unless Gambit just hates himself so much that he has little to no self confidence which is not the case.


A lot of this goes back to weak editors not keeping writers in check in terms of characterizations and reeling in their personal feelings.

[Nekobaghira]

How about an apology from Rogue, written by someone who is in charge of her specifically. That would be nice. Not from a Gambit writer, or in a Gambit solo. But in a book that should have some sort canon attached to it. TBH, there should have been an apology in that "session" when they were talking about Antarctica. She admits it was a mistake but doesn't apologize for her actions.

What I tire of  .... its always Gambit's fault.

Agree with you albahan888 with the comment of not choosing you, again why? Is this the trust thing again?

[remydat]

Something to take into account. All writers don't have the same amount of freedom as others. Something we know. Their stories have to be approved and signed off. Only a handful of them like Bendis and for a little while Remender have/had more of a free hand. For instance there are several story lines that come to mind that I doubt will ever really be brought up again. One, Ms. Marvel being impregnated by the Beyonder. Two Antman beating up Wasp. There are a few more but those two mostly because of sociological implications and just overall distasteful for business.

Those are abandoned storylines, from how Marvel handled Rogue and Magneto, and even Deathbit, I don't think it'll ever be head on addressed unless it's absolutely necessary. Both storylines were ultimately ignored and then written off quietly.

As for in character issues. I see the main theme here being trust it lack thereof, leading to betrayal. Ive always thought Gambit should have a huge problem with Magneto. Hes a thorn in his side in several realities. The only time we've seen him make mention of it was during X-factor. I loved that. But outside of that one instance Gambit has never even brought up his distaste of the man. Something I've always wanted to be laid out. One of the reasons Legacy never made sense to me, unless Gambit just hates himself so much that he has little to no self confidence which is not the case.

A lot of this goes back to weak editors not keeping writers in check in terms of characterizations and reeling in their personal feelings.

So are we back to talking about meta reasons because I feel like when I do, you will tell me you want to talk about Rogue, lol.  Sorry, just had to get that little jab in.  In all seriousness, I already addressed this, if KT can change continuity to turn Rogueneto into Rogue just exploring then I see no reason why she couldn't have Rogue say sorry.  So while I understand your point, I simply see no evidence it applies here and I think it is just an excuse to let KT off the hook as a writer.  Until she or someone at Marvel says she was not allowed to let Rogue apologize then not buying it.

I don't even care that Gambit doesn't have a huge problem with Mags.  At the end of the day, Mags was a villain and enemy of the X-men at the time and had no obligation to Gambit or Rogue for that matter.  It is Rogue that violated some measure of trust between them by sleeping with Mags.  I don't expect Gambit and Mags to be best buds but I always thought it was odd when say someone gets cheated on and they get more mad with the stranger than they do their significant other who is the one that has an obligation of trust.  Not saying Rogue cheated of course but the point here is Gambit shouldn't be mad at Mags for sleeping with Rogue.  He should be mad at Rogue for sleeping with Mags.  Mags doesn't owe gambit sh*t.

[Nekobaghira]

This s*** though...You hit the nail on the head, Neko

I have my days I guess. LOL

[DonPriceTag]

I was offering a tidbit as to why we don't see things explained/addressed the way we'd like not explaining away anything. I wasn't making any excuses, or I didn't mean to, just offering some insight. We all saw what Asmus went through concerning the smallest of plot points. And the fact we saw Mags and Rogue ended in Legacy by Gage, which was obviously an edict. I welcomed one lol. I also split my response into two sections as to not mix the two statements I made. Tried to keep it on track.


Whether KT meant that to be an apology or not, or if it could have been more or less direct, I couldn't tell you. I can ask, if you'd like? What that meant and what vein she wanted it to come down. Well, I'll probably ask any way. It's an interesting question.

[remydat]

I was just having a go at you.  Again I understand your point.  I just don't see it being true here.  With Asmus we got plenty of actual evidence of editorial interference.  I do not see any such evidence here.

[Sparta]

The thing is the fix is simple.  You don't need to go into all the reasons why she slept with Mags as God knows I don't know how you justify it.

All that would be needed was for Rogue to say, "Gambit, I am sorry for sleeping with Mags.  I don't know what I was thinking and I know it was unfair to you and to us really considering what he did to us."

That's it.  That is literally all you have to do and it would at least be her owning it.  Gambit could then simply apologize for Death which he still hasn't apologized for and we can call it a day.

I like your solution in regards to Magneto, for some reason I felt that the writer and editing team didn't want to mention Magneto. It sounded like Rogue was too afraid to name him. Again though, your solution is plausible, it's quick, to the point (it would take just 1-2 panels) and it wouldn't drag on or derail the story and bum out the audience by rehashing that depressing story line.


Hard to say with Gambit joining Apocalypse as "Death-bit", because Gambit had good intentions. Stupid as hell, but good intentions.

[Sparta]

I noticed people here mentioning Antarctica. Been a long while since I've read Nicieza's Gambit solo, but didn't Rogue apologise to Gambit for Antarctica? I'm referring to the 'Gambit' '99 Annual...
Maybe in X-Men #81 as well? I can't remember exactly...

[Nekobaghira]

The apology was in the Nicieza run of the Gambit solo. However, Rogue has never apologized for anything when in a main book. My thing was beyond a solo. She was given a hall pass for her behavior and Fabian fixed it as it were.

I don't think there was an apology in Xmen #81, but ... its been a long time since I've looked at any of those issues.

[DonPriceTag]

81..vol 2


:: quick web search::


Oooh that one. Where Wolverine acted all daddy on him. I don't recall an apology but there were a lot of "sad eyes"... Gambit seemed to be the one that was apologetic. Now I want to go back and read the issues prior to that where Storm acted all mommy on him. She gets less of a pass for him being left in Antarctica but I think she asked if they we're still friends like "are we enemies" or something like that.

[anya]

IDK, I thought speech in #3 was supposed to be an apology. Given the past 2 issues, it looked like he had already let it go (which I know a lot of you guys already didn’t like, I get that.) And if this isn’t a good enough for an apology, I get that too. I wish it had been stronger too, though it’s ‘rational’ enough reason for a girl with a terrible ‘father figure’ (mystique) growing up.


Meta arguments keep getting brought up, because the whole thing is ‘meta problems’. The more I find out about marvel’s behind the scenes stuff, the more it seems that ‘Romy’ wasn’t intended as a long term thing, but it became very popular, so it was extended, but it seems the writers and editors almost resented it for being more popular than they intended. Antarctica happened because the new writers didn’t like gambit and wanted to kill him off, but somehow didn’t realize they were writing a stupid story, but assumed most people must agree with them and wouldn’t mind.


Likewise, Carey, and the editors in involved, clearly intended roguneto to be a big long term thing, but it was much less popular than intended. Carey at least was resentfu that it wasn’t liked and from what gage had said and how his story was written, I think he wanted them to stay together too, but the fans weren’t buying it (literally and figuratively, because marvel doesn’t care about angry fans, if sales are good.). So we have the original story, which was stupid and sexist, because behind the scenes guys just wanted it to happen, the break up story which was also stupid, but not quite as bad, because behind the scenes people realized it was losing money and ordered it done.


And now KT is, to an extent, re-writing that story, and she’s probably conscious that some of the behind the scenes higher up guys that wanted the magneto story in the first place are still there but they also approved this story...So it’s like meta tight rope, lol.

[remydat]

100 23.24 $3.99 MAR Rogue and Gambit (2018) 2 22,201 -44.27%

Pretty steep drop off.