Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk

[remydat]

Noone is setting up a comparison that is rigged in KT's favor. Relax. I loved Gambit by Asmus as much as you. His #1 is much better then R&G #1.

In both books Gambit is a main character and I can easily compare how he was written in them both.

Funny because it is exactly what happend. Golems were not able to touch him and were able to touch Rogue.

I told that Asmus pushed away them kindly but both characters stayed toxic. KT`s mini was planned to make them not so toxic to write and resolve the baggage. The same way as Asmus` solo was planned to reboot Gambit in some way from all crap.

But you aren't comparing how they were written in both books as you are ignoring over 75% of Asmus' run.  You are comparing 80% of KT's story with 25% of Asmus' story.  That is rigging.  Complete stories are compared to complete stories.  Doesn't really matter how many pages the stories are written.  Asmus' complete story has 17 chapters.  KT's has 5.

Both characters did not stay toxic.  Gambit was not toxic in Liu or David's run.  Rogue was living her life quite happily without Gambit in her books.

The toxicity was manufactured years after the fact by Soule. As a Gambit fan, I would have been perfectly content without this mini because there was no pressing need to resolve Romy.  It was done.  Romy fans just wanted to see them back together hence why a Romy fan that happens to be a writer pitched this story and ignored much of what Asmus, Liu, David and Rogue's writers wrote to focus on what Soule wrote.  Both Soule and KT are writing about angst that had been resolved years before just not to the liking of Romy fans.

[purplevit]

I compared first full arc of Asmus with unfinished first arc of KT.
Toxic as 2 characters together in one book ir story.
Number of issues does matter. You can easily compare just first arc or first issues.


Because you wanted them to be in separate books means nothing on quality of lame Astonishing or KT's book.
KT started from bad and developed into good.
Without AXM your argument may have sense. With Astonishing it don't work at all.

[remydat]

The first full arc of Asmus' run was not a finished story.  Cich, Joelle, etc. all ended up in later arcs and the first arc was no different than reading the first 4 chapters of a book.  The book is obviously not over.  You would have a point if the first arc was self contained and if none of the elements in the first arc played a role in later arcs.  That obviously is not what happened as it is perfectly obvious the first arc was meant to set up the rest of the book.  Again, would you read a 300 page novel and then compare it to the first 300 pages of a 1,000 page novel?  That makes no sense Purp.  One is a finished story and the other isn't.

As for the toxic thing, I read years of stories in X-factor and Liu's AXM for which Gambit had moved on.  Those stories and those years of me reading it happened.  You and KT are acting like somehow a single issue in Soule's AXM suddenly means that the years of me reading Gambit and Rogue as free from each other are just my imagination.

KT didn't start from bad.  She simply cherry picked a single story albeit the most recent story and then acted like that single story from Soule outweighed all the years of stories from Liu and David.  If she had not written this book, most Gambit fans would have just dismissed Soule's crap as out of continuity bullsh*t because that is what it was.  KT had a right to start the book however she wanted but no Gambit was not toxic.  He was free of Rogue until Soule and KT decided to undo years of development.  Not a single issue like Soule.  But years of development.

Anywho, we are not going to see eye to eye on this.  I will end by saying this.  As a Gambit only fan, there was nothing toxic about Gambit until Soule and KT decided to write Gambit still pining after Rogue.  I prefer the Asmus, Liu, and David stories where Gambit is living a life that doesn't revolve around his begging Rogue to find him worthy of her.

[purplevit]

The first full arc of Asmus' run was not a finished story.  Cich, Joelle, etc. all ended up in later arcs and the first arc was no different than reading the first 4 chapters of a book.  The book is obviously not over.  You would have a point if the first arc was self contained and if none of the elements in the first arc played a role in later arcs.  That obviously is not what happened as it is perfectly obvious the first arc was meant to set up the rest of the book.  Again, would you read a 300 page novel and then compare it to the first 300 pages of a 1,000 page novel?  That makes no sense Purp.  One is a finished story and the other isn't.

As for the toxic thing, I read years of stories in X-factor and Liu's AXM for which Gambit had moved on.  Those stories and those years of me reading it happened.  You and KT are acting like somehow a single issue in Soule's AXM suddenly means that the years of me reading Gambit and Rogue as free from each other are just my imagination.

KT didn't start from bad.  She simply cherry picked a single story albeit the most recent story and then acted like that single story from Soule outweighed all the years of stories from Liu and David.  If she had not written this book, most Gambit fans would have just dismissed Soule's crap as out of continuity bullsh*t because that is what it was.  KT had a right to start the book however she wanted but no Gambit was not toxic.  He was free of Rogue until Soule and KT decided to undo years of development.  Not a single issue like Soule.  But years of development.

Anywho, we are not going to see eye to eye on this.  I will end by saying this.  As a Gambit only fan, there was nothing toxic about Gambit until Soule and KT decided to write Gambit still pining after Rogue.  I prefer the Asmus, Liu, and David stories where Gambit is living a life that doesn't revolve around his begging Rogue to find him worthy of her.

It is comics and not novels. There is a reason why ongoings are divided into arcs. You can compare any issue of comics to other issue. That is why every issue of comics has it`s own rating.


Once again I told that Gambit and Rogue were toxic together in book. Not that Gambit is toxic alone.
X-Factor`s Gambit may moved on. Liu`s Gambit was at the same time as Asmus` solo.


Not only Soule. Gambit wanted to kiss Rogue in UA by Duggan. Gambit was tricked by Rogue appearence in Civil War by Bunn. I think that was only 2 times thay were speaking and both times you can`t say that he was free.

I don`t agree about this but don`t want to continue to argue too.

[purplevit]

Neko, maybe it is some bad day for me but it is changing size of my text every time.
So I am editing every my post

[remydat]

It is comics and not novels. There is a reason why ongoings are divided into arcs. You can compare any issue of comics to other issue. That is why every issue of comics has it`s own rating.

Once again I told that Gambit and Rogue were toxic together in book. Not that Gambit is toxic alone.
X-Factor`s Gambit may moved on. Liu`s Gambit was at the same time as Asmus` solo.

Not only Soule. Gambit wanted to kiss Rogue in UA by Duggan. Gambit was tricked by Rogue appearence in Civil War by Bunn. I think that was only 2 times thay were speaking and both times you can`t say that he was free.

I don`t agree about this but don`t want to continue to argue too.

The rating in a comic has nothing to do with whether the story is over or not.  Some arcs have stories that don't continue after the arc is over and other arcs have stories that obviously continue into later arcs.  Asmus' story had the latter.


I am not sure why you are comparing severals years worth of stories to forgettable cameos by Gambit.  Again, the point is it was not toxic.  Gambit had moved on and it was clear from reading Liu or David.  They wrote his character for years and Gambit was not pining for Rogue.  Years of development trumps some writer not doing their research and having Gambit pining for Rogue all of a sudden.  It was out of continuity.  Further, the Duggan appearance had Rogue pining for Gambit first as she tried to kiss Red Skull Gambit.  That is not the same as the crap Soule wrote where Gambit is the one begging.

[Nekobaghira]

Neko, maybe it is some bad day for me but it is changing size of my text every time.
So I am editing every my post

Not sure why ..... maybe because of using a mobile device ... maybe not .... I don't know. Do my best to fix it as I go.

[purplevit]

The rating in a comic has nothing to do with whether the story is over or not.  Some arcs have stories that don't continue after the arc is over and other arcs have stories that obviously continue into later arcs.  Asmus' story had the latter.


I am not sure why you are comparing severals years worth of stories to forgettable cameos by Gambit.  Again, the point is it was not toxic.  Gambit had moved on and it was clear from reading Liu or David.  They wrote his character for years and Gambit was not pining for Rogue.  Years of development trumps some writer not doing their research and having Gambit pining for Rogue all of a sudden.  It was out of continuity.  Further, the Duggan appearance had Rogue pining for Gambit first as she tried to kiss Red Skull Gambit.  That is not the same as the crap Soule wrote where Gambit is the one begging.

As I posted before Liu`s Astonishing was at the same time as Asmus solo. Your severals years worth of stories is only X-Factor.

Forgettable cameos are about Rogue and Gambit. That is why I used them. You told that Gambit was free before Soule. I showed that he wasn`t in any scene where was Rogue even with small cameo.
Rogue wanted to kiss Red Skull Gambit. She rejected real Gambit. Who wasn`t free and wanted to kiss her.


Don`t know why you are using X-Factor, Astonishing and other books because I compared only Asmus solo and KT`s mini.
You can compare any issue of book and see how much writer did with character and how he used him in one issue.
The same thing with arc and it don`t matter if story ended or not.

[purplevit]

Not sure why ..... maybe because of using a mobile device ... maybe not .... I don't know. Do my best to fix it as I go.

Thanks   It changes from mobile or laptop. Don`t matter if I copy or writing new text either.

[Nekobaghira]

Thanks   It changes from mobile or laptop. Don`t matter if I copy or writing new text either.

Yeah, I don't know what it could be, hard to troubleshoot too. Kind of used to it so, we'll plug along.

[remydat]

As I posted before Liu`s Astonishing was at the same time as Asmus solo. Your severals years worth of stories is only X-Factor.

Forgettable cameos are about Rogue and Gambit. That is why I used them. You told that Gambit was free before Soule. I showed that he wasn`t in any scene where was Rogue even with small cameo.
Rogue wanted to kiss Red Skull Gambit. She rejected real Gambit. Who wasn`t free and wanted to kiss her.

Don`t know why you are using X-Factor, Astonishing and other books because I compared only Asmus solo and KT`s mini.
You can compare any issue of book and see how much writer did with character and how he used him in one issue.
The same thing with arc and it don`t matter if story ended or not.

It was years worth of stories because Asmus, Liu, and David wrote Gambit not pining after Rogue literally for years.  Liu was from March 2012 to October 2013.  The solo was August 2012 to September 2013.  X-factor was January 2014 to January 2015.  So all told that is 2.5 of stories where Gambit is not pining after Rogue.


Gambit was not pining after Rogue in Duggan's run.  Rogue tried to kiss him first and didn't know it was not Gambit.  Rogue then told Gambit about it which is the only reason he then tried to kiss her.  That is not pining.  Nor is there anything toxic about it.  Rogue was just embarrassed that Red Skull fooled her but the point is her intent was to pursue him first.


In the end, I don't think there was anything there to fix.  Soule and KT just decided to put Gambit back to pining after Rogue but I read Gambit for 2.5 years where that was not the case and the crap Soule wrote that KT picked up on doesn't change the fact I enjoyed those stories.  KT is a good story teller but she began her story based on out of continuity bull that Soule wrote.  This is not hindsight either because many Gambit fans commented on how bull Soule's Gambit was when the story came out. 

[remydat]

Anywho no hard feelings.  On the bright side, this debate has made me decide to reread the solo and Liu's run just so I can be reminded what it is like to read Gambit as his own man.  Hopefully X-men Red delivers next week.

[AeroSennin]

But you aren't comparing how they were written in both books as you are ignoring over 75% of Asmus' run.  You are comparing 80% of KT's story with 25% of Asmus' story.  That is rigging.  Complete stories are compared to complete stories.  Doesn't really matter how many pages the stories are written.  Asmus' complete story has 17 chapters.  KT's has 5.

Both characters did not stay toxic.  Gambit was not toxic in Liu or David's run.  Rogue was living her life quite happily without Gambit in her books.

The toxicity was manufactured years after the fact by Soule. As a Gambit fan, I would have been perfectly content without this mini because there was no pressing need to resolve Romy.  It was done.  Romy fans just wanted to see them back together hence why a Romy fan that happens to be a writer pitched this story and ignored much of what Asmus, Liu, David and Rogue's writers wrote to focus on what Soule wrote.  Both Soule and KT are writing about angst that had been resolved years before just not to the liking of Romy fans.

I think Gambit was still in a mess for xfactor and asmus solo though asmus tried to clean it up a bi
t. But lets be real he litterally ditched his new love interest for rogue in the lead up to her death. And in xfactor he was drinking and moonlighting aimlessly before joining polaris never mind the tixic interactions with woman ie snows wife and the polaris smack down. Litterally felt like he was just continuously reboundong trying to fill a void. Liu is the only one who really released him a bit and tried to shatter those ties but she hated romy and loved gambit.

[purplevit]

It was years worth of stories because Asmus, Liu, and David wrote Gambit not pining after Rogue literally for years.  Liu was from March 2012 to October 2013.  The solo was August 2012 to September 2013.  X-factor was January 2014 to January 2015.  So all told that is 2.5 of stories where Gambit is not pining after Rogue.


Gambit was not pining after Rogue in Duggan's run.  Rogue tried to kiss him first and didn't know it was not Gambit.  Rogue then told Gambit about it which is the only reason he then tried to kiss her.  That is not pining.  Nor is there anything toxic about it.  Rogue was just embarrassed that Red Skull fooled her but the point is her intent was to pursue him first.


In the end, I don't think there was anything there to fix.  Soule and KT just decided to put Gambit back to pining after Rogue but I read Gambit for 2.5 years where that was not the case and the crap Soule wrote that KT picked up on doesn't change the fact I enjoyed those stories.  KT is a good story teller but she began her story based on out of continuity bull that Soule wrote.  This is not hindsight either because many Gambit fans commented on how bull Soule's Gambit was when the story came out.

What are you trying to achieve with this and with changing topic? I was talking about Asmus solo and KT`s mini. Definetely not about all this.


You don`t like Gambit and Rogue together. It is normal.
So what you are trying to achieve? To show that Gambit and Rogue shouldn`t be together? Or Gambit shouldn`t be pinning for Rogue?


That dialogue is completely off topic that I wrote.

[purplevit]

Funny that before this mini started the voting results were "Neither, just a fun adventure" as main. I also voted for this.


Now winning choice is "To explore and solidify their relationship".