Poll

What is the true purpose of this mini?

To explore and solidify their relationship.
To officially split them apart.
Neither, just a fun adventure.

Author Topic: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk  (Read 111629 times)

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #630 on: April 06, 2018, 08:37:18 AM »

I think Gambit was still in a mess for xfactor and asmus solo though asmus tried to clean it up a bi
t. But lets be real he litterally ditched his new love interest for rogue in the lead up to her death. And in xfactor he was drinking and moonlighting aimlessly before joining polaris never mind the tixic interactions with woman ie snows wife and the polaris smack down. Litterally felt like he was just continuously reboundong trying to fill a void. Liu is the only one who really released him a bit and tried to shatter those ties but she hated romy and loved gambit.


Not sure what you are referring too.  His drinking in X-factor had nothing to do with Rogue.  It had to do with Wolverine kicking him out of the school because he tried to steal from Tony Stark.  It surprised him because Wolverine at the end of Asmus solo had said he accepted Gambit for what he was.

Also sleeping with women is what ladies men are supposed to do.  Not sure how that is toxic.  It just turned out to be Snow's wife.  As for Polaris, he caught her off guard and the book was cancelled before the relationship could be developed. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 08:47:14 AM by remydat »
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Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #631 on: April 06, 2018, 08:44:37 AM »

What are you trying to achieve with this and with changing topic? I was talking about Asmus solo and KT`s mini. Definetely not about all this.


You don`t like Gambit and Rogue together. It is normal.
So what you are trying to achieve? To show that Gambit and Rogue shouldn`t be together? Or Gambit shouldn`t be pinning for Rogue?


That dialogue is completely off topic that I wrote.


It is not off topic.  You said things were toxic so I am explaining that we had 2.5 years of Gambit not being concerned with Rogue.  That is not toxic.  Yes I dont like Romy.  You do.  However I dont think you can just rewrite history and pretend that some out of continuity crap by Soule and some dumb cameo by Duggan where Rogue told him she tried to kiss him suddenly means things were toxic.

Likewise Rogue certainly didn't give a crap about Gambit.  She was happy messing around with Storm and Deadpool.  There is no indication in the years before Duggan or Soule that she gave a single crap about Gambit.  And Duggan certainly didnt have her worried about Gambit for long as again she was with Deadpool.  It is clear he had no intention of anything with Gambit taking place. 

So nothing was toxic.  All that happened is a Romy fan decided to write a story to put them together.  The story was not necessary nor was the relationship toxic beforehand.  It was largely just over.

I responded because I felt that instead of just celebrating this book which I agreed was great and well written, your posts seemd to veer off into saying the 2.5 plus years that came before was somehow lesser or toxic simply because Gambit wasn't with Rogue.  That may have not been your intent but that was how it came off to me. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 09:04:16 AM by remydat »
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Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #632 on: April 06, 2018, 09:08:06 AM »

... It had to do with Wolverine kicking him out of the school because he tried to steal from Tony Stark.  It surprised him because Wolverine at the end of Asmus solo had said he accepted Gambit for what he was.

Also sleeping with women is what ladies men are supposed to do.  Not sure how that is toxic.  It just turned out to be Snow's wife.  As for Polaris, he caught her off guard and the book was cancelled before the relationship could be developed.


I dont think he was trying to steal from Stark. I think the system he broke into was upgraded by Stark and Wolverine was contacted instead of the police when Gambit was detected. The house Gambit broke into was a "no-one" character. Yeah, PAD wrote the Polaris reaction as a reflect, not an intention. I think her expression and words after showed that it wasn't the act more than it being a total surprise... probably not the greatest idea to scare someone that's had mental issues in the past. But who hasnt a mental break in the X-Men these days? No, seriously, who hasn't gone nuts yet in the X-Men? Doop?
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline purplevit

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #633 on: April 06, 2018, 09:53:35 AM »

It is not off topic.  You said things were toxic so I am explaining that we had 2.5 years of Gambit not being concerned with Rogue.  That is not toxic.  Yes I dont like Romy.  You do.  However I dont think you can just rewrite history and pretend that some out of continuity crap by Soule and some dumb cameo by Duggan where Rogue told him she tried to kiss him suddenly means things were toxic.

Likewise Rogue certainly didn't give a crap about Gambit.  She was happy messing around with Storm and Deadpool.  There is no indication in the years before Duggan or Soule that she gave a single crap about Gambit.  And Duggan certainly didnt have her worried about Gambit for long as again she was with Deadpool.  It is clear he had no intention of anything with Gambit taking place. 

So nothing was toxic.  All that happened is a Romy fan decided to write a story to put them together.  The story was not necessary nor was the relationship toxic beforehand.  It was largely just over.

I responded because I felt that instead of just celebrating this book which I agreed was great and well written, your posts seemd to veer off into saying the 2.5 plus years that came before was somehow lesser or toxic simply because Gambit wasn't with Rogue.  That may have not been your intent but that was how it came off to me.



Still don`t agree. Gambit and Rogue together were toxic characters and still are. A lot of bad stories stayed unresolved and untold.

Do you remeber how most Gambit fans reacted when they both were announced for Astonishing? There were a lot of hate. Almost the same was with R&G announcement.

I am sure KT changed at least some percent of Romy haters into more postitive or at least made them more open for Gambit and Rogue in one book.

There still will be a lot of angey posts if they will be together on one next team. Even if they wouldn`t be a couple.

 2.5 years of Gambit not being concerned with Rogue is just 2.5 years with Gambit and Rogue in separate books and stories.


Every time when even in cameo they were near, romance or drama were there.

With the same logic Gambit and Storm are not friends because they are for yeards in separate books and have only small friend cameos.
 

Rogue had her life. Gambit has his. It don`t mean that he/she don`t have some feelings for each other. Or that fellings won`t return when they will met again.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 09:57:08 AM by Nekobaghira »

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #634 on: April 06, 2018, 10:38:30 AM »

I dont think he was trying to steal from Stark. I think the system he broke into was upgraded by Stark and Wolverine was contacted instead of the police when Gambit was detected. The house Gambit broke into was a "no-one" character. Yeah, PAD wrote the Polaris reaction as a reflect, not an intention. I think her expression and words after showed that it wasn't the act more than it being a total surprise... probably not the greatest idea to scare someone that's had mental issues in the past. But who hasnt a mental break in the X-Men these days? No, seriously, who hasn't gone nuts yet in the X-Men? Doop?


Yeah you are right about the Stark thing.  My point is it really had nothing to do with Rogue.
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Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #635 on: April 06, 2018, 11:34:39 AM »

Still don`t agree. Gambit and Rogue together were toxic characters and still are. A lot of bad stories stayed unresolved and untold.

Do you remeber how most Gambit fans reacted when they both were announced for Astonishing? There were a lot of hate. Almost the same was with R&G announcement.

I am sure KT changed at least some percent of Romy haters into more postitive or at least made them more open for Gambit and Rogue in one book.

There still will be a lot of angey posts if they will be together on one next team. Even if they wouldn`t be a couple.

 2.5 years of Gambit not being concerned with Rogue is just 2.5 years with Gambit and Rogue in separate books and stories.

Every time when even in cameo they were near, romance or drama were there.

With the same logic Gambit and Storm are not friends because they are for yeards in separate books and have only small friend cameos.
 
Rogue had her life. Gambit has his. It don`t mean that he/she don`t have some feelings for each other. Or that fellings won`t return when they will met again.


Perhaps we are arguing semantics.  My point is there was no reason for them to have to resolve their stuff.  They could have gone on being separated and things were perfectly fine that way.  The Asmus solo allowed them to go their separate ways as adults.  Lazy writers (Duggan, Soule) that can't think of anything better to write just didn't allow them to remain adults about it.  The only reason they needed to resolve anything is because KT wants them to get back together.  Otherwise, people end relationships with things left unsaid all the time.  There is nothing toxic about it.  It just isn't worth the energy.

So again all that happened here is that a Romy fan got a chance to write this book and since she wanted to have them screw or get back together, she rightfully attempted to deal with some of their issues.  If there were no plans for them to be together then Gambit and Rogue could have easily continued as they were and simply be adults when they interacted as Asmus wrote them. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 11:55:49 AM by remydat »
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Offline purplevit

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #636 on: April 06, 2018, 03:46:44 PM »

Perhaps we are arguing semantics.  My point is there was no reason for them to have to resolve their stuff.  They could have gone on being separated and things were perfectly fine that way.  The Asmus solo allowed them to go their separate ways as adults.  Lazy writers (Duggan, Soule) that can't think of anything better to write just didn't allow them to remain adults about it.  The only reason they needed to resolve anything is because KT wants them to get back together.  Otherwise, people end relationships with things left unsaid all the time.  There is nothing toxic about it.  It just isn't worth the energy.

So again all that happened here is that a Romy fan got a chance to write this book and since she wanted to have them screw or get back together, she rightfully attempted to deal with some of their issues.  If there were no plans for them to be together then Gambit and Rogue could have easily continued as they were and simply be adults when they interacted as Asmus wrote them. 


Gambit and Rouge is one of the most iconic couples in comics. There is a reason for them to solve their stuff because a lot of people hated Carrey's Legacy and hated them both together as friends or couple after it. Some people even stopped reading comics after that.


You don't like them but Rogue is Gambit's closest character. They has the most stories together. So when they together in one book or story they must be exciting together. People need to want more of their adventures. As couple or as friends.


This is exactly what KT do with her mini.

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #637 on: April 06, 2018, 05:28:32 PM »

Gambit and Rouge is one of the most iconic couples in comics. There is a reason for them to solve their stuff because a lot of people hated Carrey's Legacy and hated them both together as friends or couple after it. Some people even stopped reading comics after that.

You don't like them but Rogue is Gambit's closest character. They has the most stories together. So when they together in one book or story they must be exciting together. People need to want more of their adventures. As couple or as friends.

This is exactly what KT do with her mini.


There was nothing to solve as friends as we saw them as friends at the end of Asmus.  The only thing that needed solving is if you want to make them lovers which is why KT is addressing this.


And the Asmus solo sold more than this mini so Gambit is perfectly fine without Rogue.  Some fans obviously want them together but it isn't as much as people think as that is clear from the sales or lack thereof. 


This is not to say they are no iconic as I would agree with that even as a Romy hater but they are not required to be together as friends or lovers in order for the characters to work.  They are just fine without each other.
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Offline Paneo01

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #638 on: April 06, 2018, 05:36:18 PM »
I might be in the minority, but I prefer Gambit solo and not part of a couple

Offline bark_no_byte

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #639 on: April 06, 2018, 05:39:17 PM »
I might be in the minority, but I prefer Gambit solo and not part of a couple


I don't think you're in the minority in thinking that (here at least). I do too - it's fun seeing him do his own thing. I just also like him with Rogue.

Offline purplevit

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #640 on: April 07, 2018, 02:38:23 AM »

There was nothing to solve as friends as we saw them as friends at the end of Asmus.  The only thing that needed solving is if you want to make them lovers which is why KT is addressing this.


And the Asmus solo sold more than this mini so Gambit is perfectly fine without Rogue.  Some fans obviously want them together but it isn't as much as people think as that is clear from the sales or lack thereof. 


This is not to say they are no iconic as I would agree with that even as a Romy hater but they are not required to be together as friends or lovers in order for the characters to work.  They are just fine without each other.


I never told that Romy should sell more then Gambit. Or that Gambit is not fine on his own or without Rogue.


You are changing topic again.


At this point I don't see why we need to continue this conversation. It is nothing from topic I started and just Gambit vs Romy.


You are forgetting that we are Gambit fans here. I would take good Gambit solo over good Romy solo always.


They were tixic characters. They together creted a lot of hate from fans when they were in one book. This thing should have been changed. KT's book was created for this.


We have completely different opinion on this. I am nit interested to change yours and you want be able to change mine.


If you want to add smth more to this post then ok.
After that I hope we will continue to celebrate R&G #4 because it was a very good book.

Offline AeroSennin

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #641 on: April 07, 2018, 05:57:31 AM »

Not sure what you are referring too.  His drinking in X-factor had nothing to do with Rogue.  It had to do with Wolverine kicking him out of the school because he tried to steal from Tony Stark.  It surprised him because Wolverine at the end of Asmus solo had said he accepted Gambit for what he was.

Also sleeping with women is what ladies men are supposed to do.  Not sure how that is toxic.  It just turned out to be Snow's wife.  As for Polaris, he caught her off guard and the book was cancelled before the relationship could be developed.


I feel his drinking was an extension of hisblife still falling apart after asmus solo. The status quo hadnt changed he was lost and alone he litterally followed polaris cause he had zip...... the snows wife thing was terrible as was what happened to him and i doublt gambolaris was going to fly it just felt like a good way to get gambit alapped it was honestly terrible for a man who is supposed to be smart about woman. It started feeling like a running gag after the danger kiss he was just messy and desperate... the highpoint of that series was his back and forth with quicksilver. Going back through it with history leaves him looking desperate to dill a hole of something he hasnt dealt with. Kindnof what i amntrting to express. Maybe not so well.

Online Nekobaghira

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #642 on: April 07, 2018, 09:05:21 AM »
I might be in the minority, but I prefer Gambit solo and not part of a couple

Me too.


I don't think you're in the minority in thinking that (here at least). I do too - it's fun seeing him do his own thing. I just also like him with Rogue.

I can't say that ... I don't like Rogue but I get people who do though, but there isn't much to convince me she is a character worth investing in.

I would rather read Gambit on his own.

This whole mini has glossed Rogue's faults over and amplified Gambit's. It sits poorly with me. I don't care if there was creative uses to his powers or hers. She still has not done the one thing I would want from her character, and that is on the writer.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 09:23:11 AM by Nekobaghira »

Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #643 on: April 07, 2018, 10:42:35 AM »

I never told that Romy should sell more then Gambit. Or that Gambit is not fine on his own or without Rogue.

You are changing topic again.

At this point I don't see why we need to continue this conversation. It is nothing from topic I started and just Gambit vs Romy.

You are forgetting that we are Gambit fans here. I would take good Gambit solo over good Romy solo always.

They were tixic characters. They together creted a lot of hate from fans when they were in one book. This thing should have been changed. KT's book was created for this.

We have completely different opinion on this. I am nit interested to change yours and you want be able to change mine.

If you want to add smth more to this post then ok.
After that I hope we will continue to celebrate R&G #4 because it was a very good book.

They create a lot of hate from fans when they are in one book not because they are toxic characters but because most of their writers are garbage.  They were not toxic in Asmus.  They were not even toxic at the end of Legacy as Carey made it clear that Gambit would leave her alone and let Rogue come back to her.  So the issue I have with your statement is they could have been written perfectly fine together as friends or apart if writers had simply left things as Carey, Asmus, had written.  Liu and David simply followed that formula while people like Duggan and Soule did not.

If you want to claim they are toxic, show me the convo where Gambit says he was lying about what he said in Legacy?  Show me the convo where he said he was full of sh*t regarding what he said at the end of Asmus?  No such story exists.  This sudden pining for Rogue or even Rogue wanting to kiss Red Skull Gambit was completely pulled out of thin air and simply is not supported by anything that happened in Legacy or the solo. 

In short, KT based her book on a false premise.  A false premise she did not create but a false premise she is clearly knowledgeable enough to realize exists because she read Legacy and the solo so she knows nothing Duggan and Soule wrote is supported by what Carey and Asmus wrote.  She simply did a beautiful job with that false premise but in effect, her story is based on a lie.  Gambit and Rogue were not toxic.  The were not pining for each other and Asmus proved they could handle things with no hard feelings. 

The point about sales is that while I agree they are iconic, that status is exaggerated.  If they were as iconic as Romy fans believe the book simply would have sold more and wouldn't have had sales that completely plummeted after the first issue.  That plummet is evidence of what I am saying.  I
personally know a few Gambit fans who read the solo, Liu, and David and were completely shocked by what they read in issue 1.  Why?  Because the casual Gambit fan isn't picking up dumb cameos like Duggan and they aren't reading books where it is clear Gambit is not a focus.  So they read 1 wondering how the f did the same Gambit who said what he said to Rogue at the end of Asmus and was trying to get with Cece and Polaris is suddenly back to begging Rogue for some a** in a way that borders on sexual harassment.  Casual fans simply don't rate cameos and awful characterization as highly as you or KT did and quite frankly many of them bailed long before KT was able to turn this around.  That was her fatal mistake.  Issue 1 pretty much ruined the experience for a lot of people because again, the premise of issue 1 is a lie and runs counter to years of development.  All because she decided to focus on garbage Gambit appearances in Duggan and Soule.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:20:45 AM by remydat »
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Offline remydat

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Re: Rogue & Gambit- Discussion/ Spoiler Talk
« Reply #644 on: April 07, 2018, 11:47:32 AM »

I feel his drinking was an extension of hisblife still falling apart after asmus solo. The status quo hadnt changed he was lost and alone he litterally followed polaris cause he had zip...... the snows wife thing was terrible as was what happened to him and i doublt gambolaris was going to fly it just felt like a good way to get gambit alapped it was honestly terrible for a man who is supposed to be smart about woman. It started feeling like a running gag after the danger kiss he was just messy and desperate... the highpoint of that series was his back and forth with quicksilver. Going back through it with history leaves him looking desperate to dill a hole of something he hasnt dealt with. Kindnof what i amntrting to express. Maybe not so well.

His life wasn't falling apart after the solo.  He resolved things with Rogue, was accepted as a person that would be there when the school needs him, and was elected leader of the Thieves Guild.  His life was going fine.  All that happened is David started X-factor by having Wolverine freaking out about something he pretty much told Gambit he wouldn't freak out about at the end of Asmus.  David just did that to set up a reason for him to join X-factor.

He didn't follow Polaris because he had zip as he in fact still had the Thieves Guild.  He also still had the school if he wanted it as Wolverine simply gave him an ultimatum.  He had to choose the school or the Thieves Guild.  Since he wanted to be a thief and hero, he chose Polaris instead.  So not sure what mess you see.  It is pretty absurd to suggest a guy with 3 job offers on the table is falling about.  He simply took the offer that allowed him to do the two jobs he liked (ie Thieves Guild and a hero job).  Even his alleged drinking is exaggerated.  He was not drunk.  He had a few drinks and then roughed up some people who were saying New Orleans deserved Hurricane Katrina.  In the coffee shop after when he is talking to Polaris, he had no hint of a hangover or anything.  He simply was a guy that got yelled at by Wolverine and decided to have a few drinks and rough up some a**holes to blow off steam.

There was nothing wrong about the Snow thing.  He had sex with a consenting adult.  I suspect that happens fairly regularly for a guy that is single and supposed to be a ladies man.  As for the Polaris thing, it really was no different than how he started things with Rogue.  In case you didn't notice, he hits on his teammates.  Par for the course. 

Also the Danger kiss really has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  You are pretty much reimagining the whole premise of the solo and X-factor to fit this tired narrative that his life was a mess and he someone needed Rogue.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 11:50:59 AM by remydat »
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