Author Topic: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?  (Read 2126 times)

Offline Toadman005

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I've ben debating making this thread for a while....don't want to get beaten up...but lets face it. Our favorite Cajun is not what he used to be. At one point in the mid-late 90's Gambit was arguably more popular than Wolverine, and easily among Marvel's most marketable characters (far more at that time than say, Thor or Iron Man), and a mainstay in the title X-brands. Additionally he was among the most "bad ass" characters as well, always treated as dangerous and cunning and unpredictable.


These days, he's barely used, often relegated to mini's or offshoot X-titles, or background art/panels. He's barely in any video games anymore. He's often lampooned as a troupe or cliche. He's joke upon, and he gets his ass kicked constantly.


When, where and why do you feel this happened?


Imo it was tri-fold.


1.) When Gambit's "secret"w as finally revealed and then he was removed from the title for a period, I feel it cost him a lot of his mystique and coolness. I think a lot of readers checked out during this time.


2.) With the first X-Men movie and Morrison's New X-Men hitting at roughly the same time, I think for new or newly reinterested readers, Gambit as not a main guy anymore. He was a tier 2 or even 3 guy, and as he failed to appear in subsequent movies or titles he slipped more and more.


3.) Writer sabotage. Lets face it many writers hated the character because most writers are old fans and Gambit was the "new" cool guy who got over at the expense of "their" guys be it Wolverine or Colossus, etc. So, they'd "stick it to him" whenever they got the chance to make the character look bad, or, years later make him a prop for Rogue.


oh and 4.) The art began to suffer. Gambit is a character at his best with a capable artist who can encompass his unique look, his acrobatic dynamics in a fight, and his handsome charm. Jim Lee, Andy Kubert, etc. As Marvel's artist declined, so did Gambit's appeal.
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Offline purplevit

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 02:29:40 PM »
When Alonso came to Marvel. Fabian's solo got cancelled because they thought there were too many X books. Gambit hab better sales then Hulk and Deadpool back then but his solo was cut. Marvel didn't want hin to shine anymore.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 03:14:49 PM »
Editorial also had more to do with the demise as much as other stuff. Quesada's control of the company was horrendous. He didn't care about Gambit.


When the only characters he wins in fights are nobodies, that doesn't say much for Gambit. It can be drawn spectacularly and folks think it looks great but c'mon, he's beating up nobodies, seriously, the who cares factor pops into play with that nonsense.

He gets beat up by Captain America, not once but three times. That is some serious disrespect for the character. This character who made it to the end of  Contest of Champions against well known characters. It's disheartening.

Being a prop to Rogue doesn't help him. Doesn't matter the accolades or how well written, Gambit still isn't doing anything of importance or worthy of caring about.

Writer disrespect due to whatever reasons certainly didn't help.

He's a cliche or a trope that doesn't fit the Marvel agenda. IMO.


Offline Sparta

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2018, 06:40:43 PM »
Quesada was the main problem. Cancelled his solo (which was still selling okay), and brought in a lot of Gambit-hating writers on 'X-Men'. Had no real presence in Ultimate Universe which was the biggest thing in Marvel at the time. During the big 2001 relaunch Gambit was snubbed and put in limbo until Claremont brought him over to X-Treme months later. FoX-Men was the other big problem, seven X-Men films without Gambit...5-minute role in a forgotten Wolverine solo (which was wiped out anyway)


Significant things that's happened to Gambit since 2001?


-A failed Horseman
-The cats
-Marriage to Rogue


Asmus' solo, Liu's X-23, Gambit in X-Factor and R&G. They were the highlights.


That said, 2018 is the most I've seen of Gambit in a long time...


Gambit in 2018...


-Rogue & Gambit mini
-MMX
-Astonishing X-Men
-X-Men Red
-Occasional appearances in X-Men Gold


While we'll get contrasting opinions on whether we like these books or not, this is the most I've seen of Gambit in a single year since 2000, so maybe there is some light, we'll see...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:42:28 PM by Sparta »

Offline bark_no_byte

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 10:46:28 AM »


That said, 2018 is the most I've seen of Gambit in a long time...


Gambit in 2018...


-Rogue & Gambit mini
-MMX
-Astonishing X-Men
-X-Men Red
-Occasional appearances in X-Men Gold


While we'll get contrasting opinions on whether we like these books or not, this is the most I've seen of Gambit in a single year since 2000, so maybe there is some light, we'll see...


And that's just comics. We also got him in a couple mobile games, he's finally getting a ML figure, and they just announced that Revoltech figure. Slowly but surely he's making a comeback

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 11:06:01 AM »
I think we might be missing the point of the original post. However, I get all of the enthusiasm.  :D
Being in a lot of books while is nice and top of mind awareness. He still isn't doing anything or has anything done to make him the character he once was.

I do think some strides are being made and that is good. Especially with toys/figurines, games and things. Is he on the comeback? Maybe, he's a long way from the character that debuted in the 1990's. Then again, he's not as awful as we've seen with writers like Milligan and Carey. In the end, I think some ground has been made for the character.

Outside of Red and Gold, all of his appearances are in niche books. Sometimes those books are better than the ones with Xmen in the name. But, they're subject to whim (market). I think a hat tip to Jordan White might be part of why we are currently seeing Gambit used more, he likes the character. Marvel is happy with KT so, maybe there is some of that encouragement added to the current state of affairs at Marvel.

In all fairness, I think all of the characters are watered down. Probably due to how much space is allotted for story telling.

 
 

Offline red joseph

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 11:16:06 AM »
Like the last couple of posters have said, Gambit isn't exactly in a bad place right now. He's in multiple games, actually promoted in a lot of cases as a new character in which needs to be downloaded at an extra cost.

I'm probably wrong, but i don't think he did too badly in the years 2000 - 2010. I think it's been the last 10 years where he's not fared too well.

And it's not due to writers, as i've seen/heard a lot of writes wanting to write him but had never got a chance. IMO it's always editorial whom are at fault with how they saw Gambit. As Neko said, Gambit wasn't a character editorial wanted to push, not too long ago his book was outselling Captain Marvels, yet whose was cancelled first and is now getting a movie?

Plus editorial only saw him as Rogue's supporting character, which i think has caused him the most damage since his creation, Legacy for me was his lowest moment.

Despite editorials influence,Gambit is still one of the most popular X-men and i've seen some evidence that things might be changing at Marvel. Fingers crossed

Offline red joseph

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 11:23:46 AM »
Outside of Red and Gold, all of his appearances are in niche books. Sometimes those books are better than the ones with Xmen in the name. But, they're subject to whim (market). I think a hat tip to Jordan White might be part of why we are currently seeing Gambit used more, he likes the character. Marvel is happy with KT so, maybe there is some of that encouragement added to the current state of affairs at Marvel.

I agree with the above. I think i'd be happy when he had a decent role in a main X-book.


X-men Red - He's wallpaper
Mr and Mrs X - Niche book in which Rogue saves the day and will probably be cancelled soon.
X-men Gold - Again barely was in it,
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 11:26:21 AM by red joseph »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 11:41:46 AM »
I agree with the above. I think i'd be happy when he had a decent role in a main X-book.
Agreed, I would want him in a team book with some presence. A larger role than wallpaper. Where he is actually used for his skill set and important for the mission even if the role is small, make the role useful. Hope that makes sense.

X-men Red - He's wallpaper
Mr and Mrs X - Niche book in which Rogue saves the day and will probably be cancelled soon.
X-men Gold - Again barely was in it,
It kind of feels like we're settling for quantity over quality when it comes to Gambit.
However, I do see the positives in being in the toy/game market. It hopefully extends his reach with people. It's good because the younger generation are game oriented and action figure oriented. Possibly gaining a reader here or there, maybe not but ... if that idea holds for Movie/TV. One might think that market could lead to some audience.



Offline killphil

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 12:48:35 PM »
There's his and rogue's new monthly book, mr and mrs x. Really great book imo. Solid writing and characterization. Been super happy with it so far and both him and rogue are being written in character. Reminds me of the Claremont days.

Hopefully this trend continues.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 03:21:25 PM »
I just wanna see him kick SOMEONE'S ass again, someone of IMPORTANCE.


When did Gambit lose to Cap three times btw? I only remember AvX?
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Offline killphil

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 04:00:47 PM »
Just that one time, but shown 3 different times in the series.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 04:10:09 PM »
Ah gotcha.


If Cap hadn't been treating Gambit like an afterthought, his fight against him wasn't a bad showing. But the disrespect of Cp ignoring him was what made it bad.
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Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 04:17:29 PM »
Seeing Gambit get his ass kicked from 3 different angles doesn't make it better. Okay, it was ONE time. One time the Gambit fan to live over in three different angles. How is this good?

edit:
What was the point of showing that in three angles? Was any other character shown in such a way. I want to know. Tell me and which issue.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 04:23:00 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: At what point did Gambit lose his top shelf appeal in popularity?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2018, 05:57:00 PM »
I track it back to the moment he wasn't chosen to be in the first Fox X-Men Movies.


When XXM ended and Morrison's run artistically and story began to focus on arcs that aligned more closely to those movies, he and several characters including Bishop and Psylocke (dead), were pushed to the rear for Cyclops, Beast, Jean, WOLVERINE!, Rogue, Xavier, Storm and Iceman.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony