Author Topic: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread  (Read 3864 times)

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2019, 12:48:50 AM »

I keep forgetting Layman had a book, and I own the series. Best Gambit for me was during Fabian's run. Early 90s with Claremont/Lobdell is a close 2nd. Mackies first run and then Asmus. Asmus did the best he could with the condition Gambit was left in + the limitations placed on him. I would say Seagle did a good job as well but that fool and other one tried to kill him off, so #&#& that guy.
I don't know which fool though. It may have been Lobdell, he was the other writer.

Marvel released a short story written by Lobdell - it was old material and the art wasn't great but overall, an okay story. Lobdell had been given an opportunity to write Gambit. Gambit #25 (after Nicieza) was Lobdell's. Quesada cancelled the solo after the book was given to Lobdell.
While at the time people complained about Lobdell's take on Gambit in Gambit #25 - he was a ladies man in that issue. It was actually good.

The whole thing is murky at best. 


(UXM350) - The rumor is, Lobdell would have killed him off and Seagle said no. However ... once UXM350 happened it was Seagle and Kelly on the two main X Titles (Xmen and Uncanny) and neither wanted to write Gambit (he had to be written out of the books for their runs). They stated that fact in interviews adamantly (they didn't want to write Gambit) and slightly mocked the character. Seagle and Kelly were forced to bring him back and then both left the company.

One other rumor is that one of the two writers didn't want their name attached to the UXM350 issue. In fact, the issue published was done so in a way where you really gotta look for the credits.

I don't know the truth there .... and its not easy to find out either.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 01:58:23 AM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Dantay

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2019, 08:51:03 AM »
I don't know which fool though. It may have been Lobdell, he was the other writer.

Marvel released a short story written by Lobdell - it was old material and the art wasn't great but overall, an okay story. Lobdell had been given an opportunity to write Gambit. Gambit #25 (after Nicieza) was Lobdell's. Quesada cancelled the solo after the book was given to Lobdell.
While at the time people complained about Lobdell's take on Gambit in Gambit #25 - he was a ladies man in that issue. It was actually good.

The whole thing is murky at best. 


(UXM350) - The rumor is, Lobdell would have killed him off and Seagle said no. However ... once UXM350 happened it was Seagle and Kelly on the two main X Titles (Xmen and Uncanny) and neither wanted to write Gambit (he had to be written out of the books for their runs). They stated that fact in interviews adamantly (they didn't want to write Gambit) and slightly mocked the character. Seagle and Kelly were forced to bring him back and then both left the company.

One other rumor is that one of the two writers didn't want their name attached to the UXM350 issue. In fact, the issue published was done so in a way where you really gotta look for the credits.

I don't know the truth there .... and its not easy to find out either.
Gambit was canceled along with loads of other X-books, the plan was to Merg Gambit and Bishop together with Lobdell writing unfortunately he messed that up with a terrible story and the rotating artists didnt help either
the short you mentioned was a Marvel Vault one shot, where Gambit is working with Spat and teams up with the Champions, terriable lol ,
 Seagle was credited with script for UXM350, he was brought in to fix it as Marvel did not want Gambit killed off, Lobdell originally intended to kill him off but also bring him back later down the line,

Lobdell was the begining of the end for OG gambit his was the petty jealous version, like even when he was being cool he would throw shade, when he congratulates Sam after taking down Gladiator UXM341 Sam says "thanks sir" Gambit replies "call me Remy,Sam or Joeseph at the very least".......what? that makes no sense,

before that he did XM58 which had gambit fight Joesph, he attacked him from behind, then punched him in the face because joe called him Rogues biggest disappointment, Joe then takes Gambit down kicks him in the face at which point Remy uses his powers so MagJoe uses his, Rogue shows up and Remy's excuse was "he was once Magneto we dont know him enough to trust him" God i hate this version , Lobdell was not a fan he ruined Remy every chance he got, either that or he was a Fan like Carey was a fan of Rogue

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2019, 11:41:36 AM »
Perhaps I'm mistaken about Lobdell... Who took over X-Men after Claremont left?
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Dantay

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2019, 12:17:03 PM »
Perhaps I'm mistaken about Lobdell... Who took over X-Men after Claremont left?

sorry edit, your not mistaken

After X-Men 3 it was Jim Lee and John Byrne for issue 4+5 ,
6 till 9 had Lee on Script and Lobdell on dialog

10  they were joined by Scott Williams it was billed as a Jim Lee joint with supporting cast,

11 was billed Stan Lee production in association with , Lee, Lobdell, Bob Wiacek, Tom DeFalco, Bob Harras and two others
12 is where Nicieza came in as sole writer through to 45 the Sinister reveal in Seattle

46 Lobdell took over with the X-Babies, Remy and Bishop out and about
Mark Waid came in at 51 with the mutates on the train and Sinisters return
56 Lobdell was back, he and Waid were deep in the onslaught saga at this point

As for Uncanny around the same time
after Claremont left Byrne took over for a couple of issues then Lobdell took over UXM289 he was writer for a while actually and Gambit had some good moments under him The Phalanx arc, sensing Psylock when he was in a coma UXM324, destroying Sabertooth in the danger room UXM326, it was like he was bipolar towards Gambit from the introduction of Joesph untill the Shi ar arc his gambit was so out of character, during the Shi ar - the Trial we got a better Gambit

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 12:34:27 PM by Dantay »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2019, 01:21:49 PM »
I agree Dantay, that perhaps Lobdell was bipolar or waffled in like in regards to Gambit. Lobdell did write some good stuff for the character. But when he wasn't feelin' it we'll say, he wrote a terrible Gambit. We can actually pinpoint the good issues and bad issues with this writer. No consistency as it were. Unlike other writers whose style stays the same.

As for Seagle and Kelly - one other thing. Back then, you had to buy both books for whole stories. While there could be an extra character here or there, the teams were pretty much the same for both books. That is not the case now. Since neither writer wanted Gambit on the team, he had to go.


Now - you don't need to do that.

Dantay - I try to block the "Gambit & Bishop;The Sons of the Atom" six issue mini out of my mind. It was beyond awful, hell it should be used as material for my cat's box. Thats how bad it was. Georges Jeanty's art was good but Sean Parsons was not. The fact it was published every other in art was so jarring, it made the story worse.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:54:41 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline bigbarda

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2019, 04:08:16 PM »
This book is too Rogue heavy and too Gambit lite. Its not balanced (yeah, I know broken record but its all we've had for far too many issues.) The only character being written in this book is Rogue - and that is all on KT. Her choice of story telling.

edit: guess I'll sputter from time to time. :)


TBH I feel like criticising KT for writing a Rogue-centric title is a bit unfair. Rogneto (and the last ten years of her emotional life) has made Rogue look like a vacillating basketcase. Gambit, for all that he's been written as a side character, has at least been shown as emotionally stable and mature. He doesn't need the amount of 'fixing' that Rogue does.


Also, I remember hearing that Seagle wanted to kill off Gambit by leaving him stranded in the snow, but editorial immediately retconned it.

Offline bigbarda

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2019, 04:20:54 PM »
I agree with most of that, but I do think Carey meant for the legacy memories to push her to him, but then she was supposed to be not able to resist him after that, because of his awesome manliness or whatever crap. And from carey’s comments, the habor speech was supposed to be gambit being manipulative (dumping her, thinking she’d get scared and run back, but it would backfire on him.)


He definitely was surprised and seemingly quite bitter, that the fans didn’t like his super sexist story, I think he thought it would get a response like Scott/Emma did. That the die hard shippers wouldn’t like it, but the ‘average’ fans would love it because it was a new and interesting, but that didn’t happen. He even got to the point where in one of his last interviews he said the next writer would be coward if they broke up Rogneto.it’s like, dude at some point you just need to accept that maybe you wrote a bad story...




My interactions with Carey then were my first experiences of mansplaining in the wild. "Like, I know what a non-offensive story is and maybe you're the really offensive person?", says a male baby-boomer to a 20-something woman who's studied gender politics. Of a course a male writer would know what a real Strong Female Character would do much better than I would...

Offline Mateo3000

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2019, 06:27:46 PM »

TBH I feel like criticising KT for writing a Rogue-centric title is a bit unfair. Rogneto (and the last ten years of her emotional life) has made Rogue look like a vacillating basketcase. Gambit, for all that he's been written as a side character, has at least been shown as emotionally stable and mature. He doesn't need the amount of 'fixing' that Rogue does.


Also, I remember hearing that Seagle wanted to kill off Gambit by leaving him stranded in the snow, but editorial immediately retconned it.
See I disagree and it has nothing to do with loving/hating Rogue. Just because one character appears to be more emotionally stable and mature doesn't mean he shouldn't have more focus in a book that was advertised as a Duo comic. Instead Mr & Mrs. X is basically a solo book with a secondary character. And I can also argue that while Remy does appear more mature, I don't know if we can call him more stable because his failed relationship with Rogue was something that constantly plagued him for the last couple of years. It came up in the X-23 solo from a couple years ago, in the asmus solo, and in the R&G mini from a year ago. During that whole time his relationship always seemed to be on his mind or he was shown as struggling to move on (this may be more on the writers but it doesn't change the fact) much moreso than Rogue. The difference is he was just willing to face their issues head on while she was content with running from him and pushing him away.

And also there are plenty of comic book characters that have continued to get development despite being written as mature adults without relationship issues. Just because we've come to terms with our pasts or figured out our relationships doesn't mean we stop developing.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 07:08:03 PM by Mateo3000 »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2019, 07:24:27 PM »
Reference UXM 350

@Bigbarda - Re: Seagle ... that is why I said murky. I always thought he wanted to kill Gambit off as well. 

Perhaps Dantay is right and it was editorial direction for the "no kill".

Editorial not letting Lobdell kill him off nor Seagle.  Seagle having to fix the story in a way to remove him from the two main titles. That probably is the case since Seagle didn't want the character after that issue.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 08:36:14 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2019, 07:47:46 PM »
RE: MMX.
I also agree with Mateo3000. Its not about like or dislike for Rogue. The issue is ... the book is billed as a duo book and yet only one character is featured, and you have to be invested in that characters issues.

The problem or issue is the writer lean. Much like Carey with his stuff. (Lets not get into male/female thing), the point here is that both writers have a slant and use it.

MMX should have been called. "Xmen: Rogue! Guest starring Gambit". It would have benefited from the Xmen name, the audience would know the lean/slant.  It would have been more accurate and hard core Gambit fans would only buy what they want and it would be up to Rogue/Romys to support the book. (Not critique or sarcasm or anything, a genuine idea. It really may have been a better idea.)

IMO - I don't think its unfair to call this book as a character-centric title, but I do understand if that sentiment is felt as well as not felt. I'm not invested in Rogue's issues. I don't care ... fix them, sure. Not at the expense of Gambit.


Gambit's maturity and support is good for Rogue's character and certainly in Remy's personality. However Gambit is treated as nothing more than a writer created character for support in a solo book. The difference is, most know who Gambit is and has history as opposed to a secondary/made up character for story. IMO
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 08:25:26 AM by Nekobaghira »

Offline bark_no_byte

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2019, 09:10:42 PM »
RE: MMX.
I also agree with Mateo3000. Its not about like or dislike for Rogue. The issue is ... the book is billed as a duo book and yet only one character is featured, and you have to be invested in that characters issues.

The problem or issue is the writer lean. Much like Carey with his stuff. (Lets not get into male/female thing), the point here is that both writers have a slant and use it.

MMX should have been called. "Xmen: Rogue! Guest starring Gambit". It would have benefited from the Xmen name, the audience would know the lean/slant.  It would have been more accurate and hard core Gambit fans would only buy what they want and it would be up to Rogue/Romys to support the book. (Not critique or sarcasm or anything, a genuine idea. It really may have been a better idea.)

IMO - I don't think its unfair to call this book as a character-centric title, but I do understand if that sentiment is felt as well as not felt. I'm not invested in Rogue's issues. I don't care ... fix them, sure. Not at the expense of Gambit.


Gambit's maturity and support is good for Rogue's character and certainly in Remy's personality. However Gambit is treated as nothing more than a writer created character for support in a solo book. The difference is, most know who Gambit is and has history as opposed to a secondary/made up character for story. IMO


I love the book. I love Gambit and Rogue equally (well, I probably love Gambit more). But I definitely see it as being more Rogue-centric. I let it go for a while, but after reading Issue 7, I see where the complaints are coming from and it's honestly starting to get on my nerves a bit. Especially because I don't see this book lasting much (if at all) past 12. So, that's a lot of Rogue character development and not much for Gambit.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2019, 07:56:21 PM »
bigstupidjellyfish gave permission for what he things about MMX via the other place.
Quote
So, because this is a new thread I wanted to leave a comment here so that it’ll be easier to find and I don’t spend, like, an hour looking for the old thread. I will post this once and then I’m going back to the Superman boards (where a surprising amount of people are cool with what Bendis is doing. I thought it’d be like me and five other people honestly).
 
 I’m done with the X-Men until Rogue and Gambit get divorced. Or one of them dies, but let’s be honest, divorce is preferable to one or both of them dying. It’s not just that Rogue and Gambit are married, it’s that the X-Men are stuck in this really bland and s***ty nostalgia feedback loop. Look at Uncanny X-Men or how many pages of Mr. and Mrs. X are some kind of reference to a past moment in either the X-Men’s history or Rogue and/or Gambit’s history.
 
 Like, I could at least concede that Rogue and Gambit was a competently made miniseries even if I have my qualms with it, but my god, the ongoing just s***s the bed. Uninspired coloring (which was a problem with the mini), reliance on lampshade hanging to cover up the usage of recurring visual elements, and then the plot point of “sugah, we can’t touch cuz mah powers” again but bumped up to eleven this time.
 
 And then in Uncanny, Cyclops and Wolverine are back in the 90s suits for no damn reason and Larroca’s out there being a sexist ass to Rachelle Rosenberg (who we all love for her contribution to the Asmus/Mann run). Like, the art looks bad, Larroca, but that ain’t her fault and it’s definitely not because she’s a woman.
 
 And a bunch of y’all just eat this garbage up!
 
 Age of X-Man looks cool, because Zac Thompson and Lonnie Nadler have a respect for what came before but aren’t afraid to change things in a massive way and do things differently (also Leah Williams and Vita Ayala are involved, that’s cool).
 
 The silver lining to all this is that I have more money to spend on better books, like the Justice League titles or Superman and Action Comics. And, that I have been working on a book of my own and hopefully someday I can break into comics so I fix this mess the X-Men comics are in and make things right.
 
 EDIT: and if y’all wanna throw this on the guild feel free. I don’t go there much anymore due to how s*** it’s gotten for Gambit.

Offline purplevit

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2019, 04:02:02 AM »
Bigstupidjellyfish left X books after Gold 30 so I am sure he didn`t even read MMX to write something about it.

Offline anya

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #88 on: January 18, 2019, 09:48:31 AM »



My interactions with Carey then were my first experiences of mansplaining in the wild. "Like, I know what a non-offensive story is and maybe you're the really offensive person?", says a male baby-boomer to a 20-something woman who's studied gender politics. Of a course a male writer would know what a real Strong Female Character would do much better than I would...
‘Mansplaining in the wild’ lol, great phrase. How could anyone find, ‘he does terrible things to her, but she just shouldn’t think about’ offensive? Clearly you’re far too sensitive! ;)

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Mr and Mrs X #7 Thread
« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2019, 10:49:42 AM »
Quote from: Nekobaghira link=topic=5212. msg76128#msg76128 date=1547396622
Agreed

But Liu was criticized for it, and KT is not.  She should be criticized for her treatment of not just Gambit, but Rogue too.

KT did nothing but bash Asmus' version of Gambit and she has taken almost all of his traits away except jumping and throwing cards.

Edit: I don't think Liu didn't like Rogue.  Editorial wouldn't allow her to use Rogue.  Carey had her exclusively at the time and with Magneto when Liu was writing X-23. 

Liu wrote a romy story in a Marvel novel.  While I can't recall the name of the story now, it was a sweet story for the couple.

The book is X-Men: Dark Mirror

Hey Niko.   :)

Though Iceman is my fave, I check out the Guild sometime to see what all is happening with Gambit.   For people who never read the Marvel prose novels and are not too happy with what is in the comics now, I often point them in that direction.