Author Topic: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.  (Read 2105 times)

Offline purplevit

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 06:01:55 AM »
I remember how KT told that Editor for R&G mini knew almost nothing about Gambit or Rogue. How you put an editor for a book if he had no idea how characters should be written or their story?


I am sure that Excalibur editor also had no idea about characters history and higher editors just don`t care.

Offline anya

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2020, 11:32:16 AM »
I hadn’t heard that, but I can’t say I’m surprised.


Don has a point about the movies too. Even though rogue (and cyclops) didn’t do well in the movies, they were there so it was enough to keep them in circulation. From there it was writers who were extreme fanboys who were given a lot of leeway.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2020, 05:56:12 PM »
I remember how KT told that Editor for R&G mini knew almost nothing about Gambit or Rogue. How you put an editor for a book if he had no idea how characters should be written or their story?


I am sure that Excalibur editor also had no idea about characters history and higher editors just don`t care.


Modern Marvel for you. Qualifications of talent aren't necessary.
\"Say, do you hear that? It\'s the sound of the Reaper...\"

Offline andresa

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2020, 09:32:07 AM »
From there it was writers who were extreme fanboys who were given a lot of leeway.



Modern Marvel for you. Qualifications of talent aren't necessary.


That's why I can’t seem to enjoy current comics anymore. I’m so fed up with the same characters being in the spotlight over and over again, characters that I don’t even care for. I don’t like Cyclops, I don’t like the Summers family members and their redundant personalities, and it’s been about them for the past twenty years, while my favorite character is treated like 90’s worst garbage. Because a group of nostalgic fanboys decided that everything from that point on is garbage.

When fanboys do the job of professionals, combined with inadequate editors, quality goes down the drain and fanfiction becomes canon. And while some fans continue to buy anything that is thrown their way and put these guys on a pedestal, nothing will change, even with decline in sales. Take Carey as an example, the last year or so of his run was totally crap, or Hickman, who is worshipped even though he obviously plagiarized a plot point of another book and changed Moira in a way that doesn’t even make much sense. And it’s all about the same characters again plus Moira, which suddenly became everyone’s favorite.

Only hope for Gambit and some other underutilized characters now is getting a decent role in the MCU.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2020, 02:04:39 PM »
Most of you know, I don't care for Rogue. And that is completely based on a story that was damaging to her character. The continued damage via fanboys had not helped in my view.

That said, there was a time I did like the relationship. The problem is and still exists, as readers we've been given the same old baggage for the couple since the 1990's.

There is such a thing as too much angst, too much the same will they, won't they. It fails on TV too. Mulder/Scully for example. I just couldn't take that 'romantic tension' for however many episodes/seasons/years. Its a tedious thing to endure.

Sure, the time line is far shorter in comic books but as long time reader the whole 'slow burn' and battles to be together after awhile loses its allure.
Every couple does have the ups and downs but when amplified to the max the way Marvel's writers present the material is just fatiguing.

All that said, what I would do. I'd stop with the power/trust and other bulls*** the couple has endured for far too long. Gambit needs his personality back and I would bring back full fold to the days of the 1990's. That is the guy Rogue fell for, not this farce that KT and TH has created. And it started with KT, you like her work, great. I'm happy for you, but she started his downfall. TH just amplifies it. Did KT fix some things, I guess but she didn't do Gambit any favors. TH has no clue about the relationship or how to handle it. Since continuity doesn't matter anymore, why hold on to the old baggage. Throw it out like everything else Marvel does.

Next, put them in positions of power that might conflict and show them as a couple working through those things and making it work, via communication, compromise and a little strife until they figure it out. That would be a good challenge to showcase both and possible get my interest in romy again. It would also showcase both personalities without sacrificing one for the other.
My quarters worth. :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 02:12:24 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Varia

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2020, 05:55:44 PM »
You said a lot that I was trying to say myself, about the constant push, pull, and major drama.      Again, I feel that's a result of writers not knowing how to write healthy couples who have problems but work through them, while still making them interesting.      Heck, I think a lot of writers rely on the amateur solution of keeping fans in a constant state of worry, rather than interest.   In other words.     .     .      they don't know how to show conflict in shades of grey.      It all has to be to the max or none at all.     


I do disagree, though, about KT being the beginning of Gambit's downfall.      I suppose it's somewhat typical, but I lay that dubious honor at the feet of Mike Carey.      I'm not saying there weren't times in his run that were good for Gambit and the others.      I mean, I appreciate the simple fact that he ALLOWED Rogue to get SOME control over her powers.      But, the times where the writing was bad.     .     .     was REALLY bad.     It felt as if Carey was treating the like cheap puppets rather than people.   Gambit wasn't the only one to suffer, though.      A lot of the characters did.      Not least of all, Rogue.   Magneto wasn't done any favors either.      All of them came out of that whole debacle as weaker characters than when they went in.     


Edited to Add: Not sure why there are weird space issues in my post.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 12:32:08 AM by Varia »

Offline purplevit

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2020, 05:02:33 AM »
Romy as couple is not a problem.


Bad writing and editors that are not doing their work are a problem.

Offline anya

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2020, 11:49:32 AM »
Ultimately, it is the writers responsibility. I’d agree with Varia, and go more with carey. He started the ‘nice guy-loser’, verging on benevolent stalker, characterization. He set up other things, and was capable of doing more,  but never followed through, because he just didn’t care.

Offline Varia

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2020, 03:01:00 PM »
Come to think of it, there were some pretty bad times before Carey, too, though.         Like when Gambit blamed Rogue for his blinding and then Death Gambit, etc.         To me other examples of the writers not understanding either of them.         Carey at least did away with Death Gambit without much fuss.        .        .         Then it just all crashed again.        I wonder though if Carey tends to be labeled as "where it started" because people feel that Rogue and Magneto, at least, came out of it appearing more dominant and in control than Gambit, so it felt a bit more degrading and pronounced?


Remembering all of this, it kinda begins to bug me that none of it's really brought up, when, as far as I know, it's still as canonical as Rogneto and just as irritating.      I'm not talking about here, I'm just venting some frustrations that have built up for years.      I'd like to just pretend none of it happened either, but unless a serious reboot is announced, it all still happened.      Like, a lot of KT's run (again, most of which I loved) centered around the problems Rogue has perpetrated in the relationship, like Antarctica, running off, etc.      Of course these things should be brought up, but come to think of it, it does kind of feel like Gambit is there to just nod and go along without having to face up to the stuff he's done in the same sessions.      Rogue's actions like Antarctica and Magneto constantly need explaining and long conversations about, but Gambit's blaming of her and his actually trying to kill her don't? Could be mis-remembering though.      It's been a while since I've read them.     


This isn't to say that a blame game should start.      Quite the opposite; both characters have been the victims of bad writing, often at the same time.  It's been going on for too long, and I think purplevit sums it up in saying ROMY isn't the problem; bad writers and editors are.     
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 04:25:29 PM by Varia »

Offline RomeoSvengali

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Re: Romy: Your take... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2020, 08:58:37 PM »
I always thought that the beginning of Gambit's downfall was with Peter Milligan in 2005 and 06 when he, for no reason other than he hated Gambit, tried to ruined their relationship by making it seem as if Gambit cheated on Rogue. He created a new character Pulse (most likely based on himself to fulfill a teenage fantasy) to be Rogue's new love interest (I don't think Pulse has ever been seen or even mention since X-Men Vol.2 #187 in 2006) and started the whole Death Gambit crap. Others who came after him didn't really help either of them.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 09:01:57 PM by RomeoSvengali »
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Offline hairlesscat

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2020, 11:02:59 PM »
I hold out hope for the MCU. It's a chance to start things over and avoid the convoluted crap they wind up doing in the comics. If it were me, I would stretch out the early flirtatious part of their relationship as long as I could because it's the funnest and also doesn't tie him down in a relationship too soon so we can see him have some fun and not have to think he's a jerk all the time because he's not being faithful.
I'm calling it right now: I believe that the MCU has something substantial planned for Gambit as a character. The push to put him in that new game ahead of some other fan favourites, the fact that my Gambit alert on Google shows a new article about Gambit popping up every few days, and the fact that even the X-office seems to be using him more (not well, but certainly MORE) all point to it. Gambit is, in my opinion as a reader and writer, an amazing character. He has depth of personality, he has a unique and interesting backstory, and sex appeal to boot. Any halfway competent director/producer would be able to recognize his potential and exploit it.

Offline purplevit

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2020, 03:18:30 AM »
I hope too. But won`t get too excited yet.
X-Office is not using him more. He is just a supporting at best in 1 satellite X book. He wasn`t at all in HOX POX and probably won`t do anything in next big Swords of X event.

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Romy: Your take... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2020, 02:09:33 PM »
I always thought that the beginning of Gambit's downfall was with Peter Milligan in 2005 and 06 when he, for no reason other than he hated Gambit, tried to ruined their relationship by making it seem as if Gambit cheated on Rogue. He created a new character Pulse (most likely based on himself to fulfill a teenage fantasy) to be Rogue's new love interest (I don't think Pulse has ever been seen or even mention since X-Men Vol.2 #187 in 2006) and started the whole Death Gambit crap. Others who came after him didn't really help either of them.


Given how poorly Gambit was portrayed in that entire era...being blinded, whiney, useless, blue-balled, possibly unfaithful, incompetent, cowardly, and eventually a traitor, before taking time off, yeah....that was pretty bad.


IMO Gambit's popularity has dipped many times. It didn't help when his big secret was revealed...that undercut a lot of his character. Then, a hiatus. His return was fine, but, once the X-Men movie came out, and sequel, and he wasn't featured...and then, cartoons and comics (especially Morrison's run) featured film focused characters, it dipped more. Being subjugated to lesser titles, being badly written, etc etc etc. I think so much is many writers hated Gambit and buried him, and then, those that came after him, had no concept of him.
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Offline anya

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Re: Romy: Your take ... What would you do, if you could.
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2020, 10:15:09 PM »
About Milligan, yes true, though he wrote everyone terribly, so it came out as a bit of a wash, IMO.