Author Topic: Gambit Watch 2020  (Read 3640 times)

Offline andresa

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Gambit Watch 2020
« on: January 08, 2020, 09:36:19 AM »
Excalibur continues to be a piece of s#%@!

Offline purplevit

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 09:42:06 AM »
Yes. It is a total garbage. I hope this book won`t survive second arc.

Offline Meliorist

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 12:21:08 PM »
You know, they say misery loves company but I'm glad you guys are taking the hit for me on this one

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 02:36:35 PM »
Wow, that says something. When the most positive folks find a book G is in as s***. Oof.
Don noted on twitter that perhaps the writer and artist are not on the same page.


Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 02:54:47 PM »
Wow, that says something. When the most positive folks find a book G is in as s***. Oof.
Don noted on twitter that perhaps the writer and artist are not on the same page.


And I mean that wholeheartedly. When I was still reading I found myself reading a page twice or three times because I couldn't figure out how they got from one point to the next. The voices are all off, the pacing is confusing. Gambit acts like an exaggerated XTAS version of himself, and not in the good way.


I can put up with a mediocre book as long as Gambit's in it but if I can't understand what I'm reading? I'm out. Been out of this and I don't miss it. Not when X-Force, X-Men and New Mutants are so good In that order. New Mutants was better in the first 2 or 3 issues. I hope it goes back to focusing on the New Mutants/Generation-X characters.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 02:56:35 PM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline X-fan73

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 03:15:14 PM »
Gambit you are such a trouble maker... I think things are starting to get interesting. Gambit is too hot headed in this series, I'll give people that.

Offline RomeoSvengali

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 04:12:00 PM »
If there's anyone saying that Tini is still trying to get a hold of the characters... they need to get their head examined... she's just part of a long list of talentless hacks who don't give a f**k about story or character.
https://vimeo.com/49613968
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Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 12:15:10 AM »
Hard to get behind DoX when your favourite character is written like complete crap. I know many are complaining about Laura in Fallen Angels and Jean under Hickman, but Gambit is probably the worst written character overall. Probably a front-runner of worst character for 2020 so far. I hear Hickman will be working closely with Howard in this next arc, that leaves me with less confidence considering that Hickman didn't even bother to throw Gambit in a panel in that big Krakoan party in HoX...and he used hundreds of mutants in that event. So don't expect much.


That said, ironically Gambit is the only one that speaks with the most sense. For the life of me, I don't understand how you would allow Apocalypse to order everyone around, and be on the Quiet Council. At the very least Gambit sees through his bs, that's all I've got! Other than that, he's incompetent and obnoxious.

Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2020, 09:28:09 AM »
That’s the frustrating part, because, story-wise, gambit was right, about everything. Apocalypse was up to something, he was using them and did set up rogue and trapped her in a naked, flower coma. But the other characters act like he’s annoying. He was even the one to help her wake up sending Rachel into the dreamscape to find her (of course, this was mostly offf panel,) but he’s still painted as a screw up.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 09:26:55 AM »

Hard to get behind DoX when your favourite character is written like complete crap. I know many are complaining about Laura in Fallen Angels and Jean under Hickman, but Gambit is probably the worst written character overall. Probably a front-runner of worst character for 2020 so far. I hear Hickman will be working closely with Howard in this next arc, that leaves me with less confidence considering that Hickman didn't even bother to throw Gambit in a panel in that big Krakoan party in HoX...and he used hundreds of mutants in that event. So don't expect much.


That said, ironically Gambit is the only one that speaks with the most sense. For the life of me, I don't understand how you would allow Apocalypse to order everyone around, and be on the Quiet Council. At the very least Gambit sees through his bs, that's all I've got! Other than that, he's incompetent and obnoxious.

I disagree on one point you made. Apocalypse 100% deserves to be on the Quiet Council. For the Krakoa model to work - unlike Jean's half-baked plan in Red - everyone has to be on board. All the mutant power houses and influencers have to tow the line or anything that happens outside of the island would be blamed on them. No different a terrorist group that originates from a country, but said nation does nothing to intervene. They'd be tasked with hunting down their own simultaneously destroying any semblance of unity, thus injuring their bid to be recognized as a real nation.

It's why Sinister is there. They aren't stopping him from experimenting, just making him do it on the island. It's why the Hell Fire Club is still doing business, just under the Krakoan banner. Look at Selene and Emplate - both are active members of the society, at the same time fulfilling a purpose and still feeding themselves at the same time. Exodus is there doing what he does best, protecting the mutant race and seeing that it flourishes.

If Apocalypse was out there doing his own thing, it'd sabotage the whole endeavor. Him wanting to be there and being there makes sense. Its not about being "good enough" or "evil". Its about making it work. What doesn't work for me is the fact that he's a member of an action team. That's nonsense. The man is beyond needing a team. He employs lackies and cohorts (the horsemen) because he doesn't want to bother himself with the unworthy - and he also cant be everywhere at once. By all means, he should be doing for Excalibur, what Sinister does for Fallen Angels. Doesn't get involved, just pulls strings and councils where he sees fit.

I skimmed through the book at the store yesterday... I haven't hated a run this much since Milligan, and I quit comics for the better part of a decade because of that. At least Milligan's writing was decipherable. This was horrible. No one acts or sounds like they should in this book. Apocalypse is talking WAAAAAY too much and must have had a stroke because his vocabulary is horrid. That's not Apocalypse's voice. Those aren't the speech patterns of someone from Ancient Egypt and that's been worshiped as a god for centuries.

Gambit.... my goodness... Gambit, what has this hack done to you? This book has three draws. Psylocke, Rogue and Gambit. Probably in that order. The first has been consistently used and been a focal character for years. Mostly since her initial Uncanny X-Force run. Rogue and Gambit just came off nearly two years of starring in their own books. Rogue has spent the majority of this run just off-panel. When she was awake she was barely recognizable from a character standpoint.

Gambit... he's a moron. Rictor, Rictor of all people called him an idiot this issue. RICTOR IS A FAMOUS AIR-HEAD! What the #$#% does a writer get off using him to belittle Gambit? Gambit's not stupid! Impulsive, sure - but not to a fault. He's a master thief, which means he's calculating. He's definitely not dumb enough to get into a fist fight with Apocalypse! No one this side of the HULK should ever be able to win a fist fight against him! The man just took on THREE NIMRODS a couple months ago! Nimrods! Three! And you telling me, Gambit a seasoned X-Man would throw a punch at him? What the #[email protected]#?!

Of course, Rogue comes in and just does something she, entire teams of X-Men or even Thor hasn't been able to do and just thrashes this man without missing a beat? GTFOH.... I boiled down the weird pacing to Tini and the artist not being on the same page, but that last page didn't in anyway fit the dialogue to the panel. I don't think Tini really knows what shes doing at all. I cant believe people are eating this up. Its bad and nonsensical. The biggest parts of this book is just a mess. The stuff that does work is dwarfed by what doesn't. Its bad.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 09:12:06 PM »
I disagree on one point you made. Apocalypse 100% deserves to be on the Quiet Council. For the Krakoa model to work - unlike Jean's half-baked plan in Red - everyone has to be on board. All the mutant power houses and influencers have to tow the line or anything that happens outside of the island would be blamed on them. No different a terrorist group that originates from a country, but said nation does nothing to intervene. They'd be tasked with hunting down their own simultaneously destroying any semblance of unity, thus injuring their bid to be recognized as a real nation.

It's why Sinister is there. They aren't stopping him from experimenting, just making him do it on the island. It's why the Hell Fire Club is still doing business, just under the Krakoan banner. Look at Selene and Emplate - both are active members of the society, at the same time fulfilling a purpose and still feeding themselves at the same time. Exodus is there doing what he does best, protecting the mutant race and seeing that it flourishes.

If Apocalypse was out there doing his own thing, it'd sabotage the whole endeavor. Him wanting to be there and being there makes sense. Its not about being "good enough" or "evil". Its about making it work. What doesn't work for me is the fact that he's a member of an action team. That's nonsense. The man is beyond needing a team. He employs lackies and cohorts (the horsemen) because he doesn't want to bother himself with the unworthy - and he also cant be everywhere at once. By all means, he should be doing for Excalibur, what Sinister does for Fallen Angels. Doesn't get involved, just pulls strings and councils where he sees fit.

I skimmed through the book at the store yesterday... I haven't hated a run this much since Milligan, and I quit comics for the better part of a decade because of that. At least Milligan's writing was decipherable. This was horrible. No one acts or sounds like they should in this book. Apocalypse is talking WAAAAAY too much and must have had a stroke because his vocabulary is horrid. That's not Apocalypse's voice. Those aren't the speech patterns of someone from Ancient Egypt and that's been worshiped as a god for centuries.

Gambit.... my goodness... Gambit, what has this hack done to you? This book has three draws. Psylocke, Rogue and Gambit. Probably in that order. The first has been consistently used and been a focal character for years. Mostly since her initial Uncanny X-Force run. Rogue and Gambit just came off nearly two years of starring in their own books. Rogue has spent the majority of this run just off-panel. When she was awake she was barely recognizable from a character standpoint.

Gambit... he's a moron. Rictor, Rictor of all people called him an idiot this issue. RICTOR IS A FAMOUS AIR-HEAD! What the #$#% does a writer get off using him to belittle Gambit? Gambit's not stupid! Impulsive, sure - but not to a fault. He's a master thief, which means he's calculating. He's definitely not dumb enough to get into a fist fight with Apocalypse! No one this side of the HULK should ever be able to win a fist fight against him! The man just took on THREE NIMRODS a couple months ago! Nimrods! Three! And you telling me, Gambit a seasoned X-Man would throw a punch at him? What the #[email protected]#?!

Of course, Rogue comes in and just does something she, entire teams of X-Men or even Thor hasn't been able to do and just thrashes this man without missing a beat? GTFOH.... I boiled down the weird pacing to Tini and the artist not being on the same page, but that last page didn't in anyway fit the dialogue to the panel. I don't think Tini really knows what shes doing at all. I cant believe people are eating this up. Its bad and nonsensical. The biggest parts of this book is just a mess. The stuff that does work is dwarfed by what doesn't. Its bad.


Keep in mind Apocalypse wanted Rogue to kill him, that explains why Rogue "beat" him so easily. Your explanations of Apocalypse on the Quiet Council is very plausible. I'll probably have to look at it that way myself. But yes, Apocalypse's dialogue is woeful, and personally he's not all that compelling for me to drive this book. Not sure how long he'll be sidelined for, he's on the cover of the next issue and a few more following it.

The problem with this book is that there's far too much thrown in, we're talking Apocalypse's motives and trying to "align the stars", Betsy becoming the new Captain Britian, Druids and Rictor, comatose Rogue and her visions, Shogo the Dragon, the throne in Otherworld. That's a lot of material for just 5 issues. It's like watching the last season of Game of Thrones where everything was rushed to get all the characters where they needed to be. And maybe Hickman has something to do with this too considering that he's pretty much the editor of these books and is working closely with Tini in this next arc.

There was this one panel about Apocalypse analysing Gambit on the ground saying that there might be something inside him that he needs, that part got me intrigued.
Speculation that Maxime and Manon are Rogue and Gambit's children have resurfaced. I know the twins are in New Mutants, I've read their bios and there's quite a few things that connect. Rogue's pregnancy is once again teased. For me the cover gives it away and all that baby talk and motifs in MMX. I'm just about 100% convinced that she's pregnant (or will be pregnant)...and I've been so for months now.




Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2020, 12:16:26 PM »
On rogue beating apocalypse, I will give you that one. He did want her to ‘kills a whatever part of his plan. So yes, she wasn’t just easily able to defeat him, he completely threw the fight.

Offline thjan

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 12:27:08 PM »
Yep, I have to agree with everyone that Gambit is being written horribly in Excalibur.  And I was so looking forward to it when they announced the title.  Sigh...


I also echo DonPriceTag in that I am getting very major Milligan vibes from this title in regards to Gambit.  Man, I detested Milligan's run and it was the first time I stopped reading a title with Gambit in it.  I am very close to dropping this too since I come away from every issue disappointed with the treatment of Gambit.  He is a dumb, charmless, and incompetent hothead in it that all the other characters rag on for some reason.  I hate that this is the writer that got him first in this new era of the X-Men.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2020, 08:35:45 AM »

Keep in mind Apocalypse wanted Rogue to kill him, that explains why Rogue "beat" him so easily. Your explanations of Apocalypse on the Quiet Council is very plausible. I'll probably have to look at it that way myself. But yes, Apocalypse's dialogue is woeful, and personally he's not all that compelling for me to drive this book. Not sure how long he'll be sidelined for, he's on the cover of the next issue and a few more following it.

The problem with this book is that there's far too much thrown in, we're talking Apocalypse's motives and trying to "align the stars", Betsy becoming the new Captain Britian, Druids and Rictor, comatose Rogue and her visions, Shogo the Dragon, the throne in Otherworld. That's a lot of material for just 5 issues. It's like watching the last season of Game of Thrones where everything was rushed to get all the characters where they needed to be. And maybe Hickman has something to do with this too considering that he's pretty much the editor of these books and is working closely with Tini in this next arc.

There was this one panel about Apocalypse analysing Gambit on the ground saying that there might be something inside him that he needs, that part got me intrigued.
Speculation that Maxime and Manon are Rogue and Gambit's children have resurfaced. I know the twins are in New Mutants, I've read their bios and there's quite a few things that connect. Rogue's pregnancy is once again teased. For me the cover gives it away and all that baby talk and motifs in MMX. I'm just about 100% convinced that she's pregnant (or will be pregnant)...and I've been so for months now.


Here's my thing about Rogue "killing" Apocalypse. That doesn't really vibe either. Of course, she should be pissed but going from what happened to her to murder? The dialogue between them didn't say "I'm going to kill you" it said "I'm very angry" . Rogue is very cautious about using her powers in that way. She'll drain just about anyone, but to death? Rogue? She murdered Scarlet Witch but didn't drain her and she actually had real beef with her (don't get me wrong that was ooc too). When Rogue goes that far with her powers the victim can get stuck in her head... Permanently. She regretted draining Mystique like that, you think she'd just do the same with Apocalypse? Nah. Don't buy it. The story or the book. I'm saddened that it's cannon now.


That goes back to bad pacing and script issues.

Let me get something straight, they let Apocalypse, political position notwithstanding, pound Gambit into the ground because he deserved it, but stand back and let Rogue murder Apocalypse? Betsy is now plenty fast and strong enough to intervene. No passes for me. No brownie points for some sort of "heart warming reunion".
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 08:39:00 AM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2020, 09:23:40 AM »
That is also true, that is ooc for rogue. And betsy, naw I ain’t gonna bother helping gambit and rogue is beating apocalypse, oh well... I should probably do something but my nails are get wet and they can both be resurrected