Author Topic: Gambit Watch 2020  (Read 25837 times)

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 03:01:33 PM »

Here's my thing about Rogue "killing" Apocalypse. That doesn't really vibe either. Of course, she should be pissed but going from what happened to her to murder? The dialogue between them didn't say "I'm going to kill you" it said "I'm very angry" . Rogue is very cautious about using her powers in that way. She'll drain just about anyone, but to death? Rogue? She murdered Scarlet Witch but didn't drain her and she actually had real beef with her (don't get me wrong that was ooc too). When Rogue goes that far with her powers the victim can get stuck in her head... Permanently. She regretted draining Mystique like that, you think she'd just do the same with Apocalypse? Nah. Don't buy it. The story or the book. I'm saddened that it's cannon now.


That goes back to bad pacing and script issues.

Let me get something straight, they let Apocalypse, political position notwithstanding, pound Gambit into the ground because he deserved it, but stand back and let Rogue murder Apocalypse? Betsy is now plenty fast and strong enough to intervene. No passes for me. No brownie points for some sort of "heart warming reunion".

Doesn't Rogue feel the changes in her body when she absorbs someone? In this instance she certainly would feel her face morphing, even if she is on a adrenaline high.

I'm so tired of that damn Excalibur book. It's Milligan bad. The difference being that Milligan was having a laugh. Unprofessional as it was. Tini? Who knows. I think she is just not ready for this. Specualtion aside it's obvious she needed a lot more research.

I'm getting tired of the CBR thing also. I have tried seeing it from every angle but people aren't up for any sort of serious discussion. Either you write short "I love it" posts and they are happy or you write longer posts with valid points and get few or next to none responses. Then some troll posts about the negative posters and lately they throw in a line that they like it because Gambit is written bad.
 

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 04:53:49 PM »
They are quick to ban at CBR. It's hard to have a discussion there when you have to censor yourself. Purposely skirt ideologies for not wanting to be banned. And some bans are short, others longer.

When I post there, I constantly have to re-word my response because if someone reports the post, banned. Then I spend the time to give a positive because again, its difficult to have a discussion there. After the third of fourth edit, I'm almost in eff it mode. LOL Not to mention the rigmarole for explaining that you're not attacking anyone else's opinion, so that you can give yours. It's fatiguing.

Milligan bad! LOL, love it. we'll just call it MB.

It's clear, all that is wanted there is "I love it" type stuff. Nobody wants to actually delve into the whats wrong or right with the stories. To look at the nuances and figure out what is intriguing or not about the story.

This has been going for far too long. It's only the mom and pop places where you can actually say what you think and survive. :)

My opinion, of course. LOL Sorry its habit now, ingrained.

Edit, I even edit too much here. pfft. Too funny to me.
Icefanatic has forum too. Small like here but safe to have an opinion.http://abetterplace.boards.net/
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:44:00 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline red joseph

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 04:58:25 PM »
I'm getting tired of the CBR thing also. I have tried seeing it from every angle but people aren't up for any sort of serious discussion. Either you write short "I love it" posts and they are happy or you write longer posts with valid points and get few or next to none responses. Then some troll posts about the negative posters and lately they throw in a line that they like it because Gambit is written bad.

I noticed this, a couple of the posters over there are so dead set on the DOX/POX era being a success that they won't except other people having a differing opinion. Thankfully it's only a handful of posters, 95% of people there hate Excalibur.

I'm a fan of DOX/POX but it's a shame that Gambit is in the bland book, he'd fit in so well in a couple of the other titles. I think the writer just sees Gambit as Rogues ineffective husband...... and that's it. The most i think we'll get is another arc of Gambit as Deathbit again via Apocalypse.

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2020, 06:03:13 AM »
I noticed this, a couple of the posters over there are so dead set on the DOX/POX era being a success that they won't except other people having a differing opinion. Thankfully it's only a handful of posters, 95% of people there hate Excalibur.

I'm a fan of DOX/POX but it's a shame that Gambit is in the bland book, he'd fit in so well in a couple of the other titles. I think the writer just sees Gambit as Rogues ineffective husband...... and that's it. The most i think we'll get is another arc of Gambit as Deathbit again via Apocalypse.

Back in the day, before Carey, I had my idea of fixing the deathbit mess. Visually it would be a reverse of of color. White skin, black hair more in the defying gravity style Gambit has. Red eyes and probably more nods to Sinisters involvment. Power wise it would be more of a death energy thing. A play on his normal powers. Not perfect by any means but at least more useful and visually interesting then what we got. I wanted Gambit and Angel and some others to assemble a team to hunt down Apocalypse and stop him before the next thing he had planned. Just to try to salvage the mess Milligan had left.

On Excalibur I recently did a reread of Gambit's moments. With the exception of caring for Rogue nothing about it says Gambit or requires it to be Gambit. His powers are not used. I repeat this to emphasise how bad it is. His powers are not used in any way that requires it to be Gambit in that spot. He charms no one. Has no references to earlier relationships. Sure he distrusts Apocalypse but that A-hole has screwed over so many X-mens that you can slot some other character in there. Agility is nonexistent, even worse we have the looney toones moment when he falls in the chasm. There is further more no wit or elegance in his dialouge or movements. Looking at this and the few facts we know about the process behind the book it's hard to think Tini picked Gambit.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:07:54 AM by malachi »

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2020, 10:07:11 AM »
I'm getting tired of the CBR thing also. I have tried seeing it from every angle but people aren't up for any sort of serious discussion. Either you write short "I love it" posts and they are happy or you write longer posts with valid points and get few or next to none responses. Then some troll posts about the negative posters and lately they throw in a line that they like it because Gambit is written bad.

Back when I posted more at CBR and I would make a lengthy, serious post about something and people there would insist how ANGRY my posts were simply because they were lengthy and serious. Like if you actually care about something and try to discuss it at length you are just a raging lunatic.  :idiot2:

They are quick to ban at CBR. It's hard to have a discussion there when you have to censor yourself. Purposely skirt ideologies for not wanting to be banned. And some bans are short, others longer.

When I post there, I constantly have to re-word my response because if someone reports the post, banned. Then I spend the time to give a positive because again, its difficult to have a discussion there. After the third of fourth edit, I'm almost in eff it mode. LOL Not to mention the rigmarole for explaining that you're not attacking anyone else's opinion, so that you can give yours. It's fatiguing.

It's clear, all that is wanted there is "I love it" type stuff. Nobody wants to actually delve into the whats wrong or right with the stories. To look at the nuances and figure out what is intriguing or not about the story.

This has been going for far too long. It's only the mom and pop places where you can actually say what you think and survive. :)

My opinion, of course. LOL Sorry its habit now, ingrained.

Edit, I even edit too much here. pfft. Too funny to me.
Icefanatic has forum too. Small like here but safe to have an opinion.http://abetterplace.boards.net/

I generally just write up a post at CBR and then delete it before posting.  ;D

Thanks for the shout-out. For anyone interested, I started the 'A Better Place - A Fandom Community Forum' back when CBR was an out-of-control troll board, literally a couple of months before their big reboot. Members were primarily Iceman, Gambit and Nightcrawler fans. I'm the Admin. Neko, CC008 and ProfezzorX are all Mods.

Between people gravitating back to CBR after the reboot and a lot of disatisfaction with comics in general, Marvel in particular and the handling of our favorite characters in particular... activity fell off. I'm as much to blame as anyone for that. I'd hit my limit as a fan on taking crap from Marvel and for awhile I honestly felt like walking away from comics entirely.  :(

I eventually came back (with a vengeance)and I'd love to get ABP built up into what it was originally intended to be, a sensible alternative to CBR and the like. There seems to be this attitude at places like CBR that you either have to have a free-for-all troll board or an internet police state with nothing in-between, and I think most of us would just like a basically decent place to post where you can have sensible and reasonable discussions. Where having an opinion someone doesn't like isn't grounds to have war waged on you, and people don't abuse tools intended to deal with bad posters to silence the good ones  instead.

Any GG members that want to be a part of that are more than welcome. http://abetterplace.boards.net/

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2020, 03:57:51 PM »
Back in the day, before Carey, I had my idea of fixing the deathbit mess. Visually it would be a reverse of of color. White skin, black hair more in the defying gravity style Gambit has. Red eyes and probably more nods to Sinisters involvment. Power wise it would be more of a death energy thing. A play on his normal powers. Not perfect by any means but at least more useful and visually interesting then what we got. I wanted Gambit and Angel and some others to assemble a team to hunt down Apocalypse and stop him before the next thing he had planned. Just to try to salvage the mess Milligan had left.
I like your idea for Deathbit. I never liked the gas power, it never made sense and it was the joke Milligan wanted to write and Quesada let him.

On Excalibur I recently did a reread of Gambit's moments. With the exception of caring for Rogue nothing about it says Gambit or requires it to be Gambit. His powers are not used. I repeat this to emphasise how bad it is. His powers are not used in any way that requires it to be Gambit in that spot. He charms no one. Has no references to earlier relationships. Sure he distrusts Apocalypse but that A-hole has screwed over so many X-mens that you can slot some other character in there. Agility is nonexistent, even worse we have the looney toones moment when he falls in the chasm. There is further more no wit or elegance in his dialouge or movements. Looking at this and the few facts we know about the process behind the book it's hard to think Tini picked Gambit.
That is disappointing. It does bother me that those of you still spending time and money on these books are so disappointed with the product.

Unpopular opinion incoming, Gambit has been treated poorly by two women writers. We talk about what he used to be and while Asmus wasn't perfect nor was PAD (though the first few issues weren't bad) until PAD lost interest. Honestly, looking ANXF, it was the Georgia/Quicksilver show. But at least Gambit had some of his created traits.


Outside of action sequences, nothing of importance happened in KT's books. While I know some are completely satisfied with that, it doesn't change the fact there was no story for Gambit. The villain in the mini tailor made for Rogue.

Where would Howard get anything from that, if she is basing her view on the prior book/s, outside of marriage nothing to work with. It's not surprising that he is written they way he is. Sounds like she doesn't have his voice or knows any attributes of the character outside of marriage.

There is nothing wrong with marriage but if any character can take his place then why did they bother with it. That element is not getting anything that would give the relationship merit beyond it just being there.

I made a pact with myself. Twice, the first time was the mini and ongoing. I broke that pact by supporting a book that I didn't like. This time, I've stuck to my pact. I'm not spending money on characters I don't like and Gambit no longer lures me in to break my pact.

My sympathies to those who have been gung-ho with the books that are being let down. I know I gave up but there is nothing so disappointing than spending money for 20 pages of poor content.

My comments are for the sake of discussion and to move us back to Gambit. LOL
Nothing personal, nothing antagonistic, just rolling out an opinion. :)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:34:09 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2020, 05:05:32 PM »
That is disappointing. It does bother me that those of you still spending time and money on these books are so disappointed with the product.

Unpopular opinion incoming, Gambit has been treated poorly by two women writers. We talk about what he used to be and while Asmus wasn't perfect nor was PAD (though the first few issues weren't bad) until PAD lost interest. Honestly, looking ANXF, it was the Georgia/Quicksilver show. But at least Gambit had some of his created traits.


Outside of action sequences, nothing of importance happened in KT's books. While I know some are completely satisfied with that, it doesn't change the fact there was no story for Gambit. The villain in the mini tailor made for Rogue.

Where would Howard get anything from that, if she is basing her view on the prior book/s, outside of marriage nothing to work with. It's not surprising that he is written they way he is. Sounds like she doesn't have his voice or knows any attributes of the character outside of marriage.

There is nothing wrong with marriage but if any character can take his place then why did they bother with it. That element is not getting anything that would give the relationship merit beyond it just being there.

I made a pact with myself. Twice, the first time was the mini and ongoing. I broke that pact by supporting a book that I didn't like. This time, I've stuck to my pact. I'm not spending money on characters I don't like and Gambit no longer lures me in to break my pact.

My sympathies to those who have been gung-ho with the books that are being let down. I know I gave up but there is nothing so disappointing than spending money for 20 pages of poor content.

My comments are for the sake of discussion and to move us back to Gambit. LOL
Nothing personal, nothing antagonistic, just rolling out an opinion. :)

I agree with that and I think it's true not just of Gambit but of a number of characters and books. You get a mediocre run, a bad run, another mediocre run... Unless you get a writer with a deep love and understanding of the character and a desire to return them to form, you tend to get a continuation of that. Both Mr. and Mrs. X and X-Men Gold were mediocre books that spent time treading water and retreading old stuff, and yet they got praise from many longtime fans often because they mostly weren't actively crapping on the characters. Iceman in Marauders is basically a continuation of Sina Grace's divisive run with the character from the Iceman solo, so for fans who were hoping for a return to a more classic interpretation of that character... forget it. You could make list.

Excalibur has big problems besides just Gambit. Rogue, Apocalypse and Jubilee are all off on characterization. The story is being poorly told and doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't see a fix for that without a change in writer. I also don't see a chance in hell of that happening. TH seems to be a trendy writer for Marvel who is getting a push right now,  so if the book gets canned eventually due to low sales I expect the characters and the fans will get the blame, not the writer.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2020, 08:51:48 PM »
I think maybe, Marvel should rethink their model. 20 pages isn't enough to tell a story. They tell stories but its all about getting from point a to point b, that nuance gets lost. Characterization is lost, relationships are lost. When there was more pages for stories, fans got inner thoughts, side stories and the main story still continued.
They should go back to more pages for story, imo. They're charging too much for 20 pages of content too. IMO.

Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2020, 03:53:42 AM »
I actually really enjoyed PAD's Gambit on X-Factor. Politics aside, I loved the first half and Gambit's interactions with Polaris and Quicksilver, and the Danger stuff was hilarious. But yes, once Georgia came into it, it lost a lot of momentum. The Wanda guest appearance was good though in that weaker latter half. I don't think Serval ever got a mention again after that.

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2020, 05:09:31 AM »
I agree with that and I think it's true not just of Gambit but of a number of characters and books. You get a mediocre run, a bad run, another mediocre run... Unless you get a writer with a deep love and understanding of the character and a desire to return them to form, you tend to get a continuation of that. Both Mr. and Mrs. X and X-Men Gold were mediocre books that spent time treading water and retreading old stuff, and yet they got praise from many longtime fans often because they mostly weren't actively crapping on the characters. Iceman in Marauders is basically a continuation of Sina Grace's divisive run with the character from the Iceman solo, so for fans who were hoping for a return to a more classic interpretation of that character... forget it. You could make list.

Excalibur has big problems besides just Gambit. Rogue, Apocalypse and Jubilee are all off on characterization. The story is being poorly told and doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't see a fix for that without a change in writer. I also don't see a chance in hell of that happening. TH seems to be a trendy writer for Marvel who is getting a push right now,  so if the book gets canned eventually due to low sales I expect the characters and the fans will get the blame, not the writer.

I realised after issue 1 or 2 of Excalibur that I had read something else from Tini. She released a 4 issue mini about Death's head just before excalibur. I grew up with Death's Head 2 so there is some attachement to that corner of Marvel. I only got through 3 issues of that mini. First issue was ok then it got jumbled and messy. She introduced 1 new character: Death's head 3 that was mostly cringy to read. She wrote a ok relationship with Wiccan-Hulkling but that was due to going with the neverending stream of conciousness dialouge mode with them. It drowned out the pages and got a bit boring. Her villain was not a threat. Overall it was written for Young readers that haven't seen Jar Jar binks yet.

KT in general disapointed with to much focus on Rogue. Still there was some good Gambit moments in her Mr&Mrs X run. There was just to few considering it should have been a 50/50 book.

Favorite Gambit writers the latest 10 years:

1: Marjorie Liu(Asmus wrote him with more style but Liu had the character interactions. Loved her Paris arc in X-23)
2: James Asmus. Got the charm and danger.
3: Tom Taylor. Fun, Dangerous, competent and respected by other X-men.
4: KT. Wrote mostly ROMY and while I enjoyed that I missed other aspects of gambit. Last arc was her best Gambit wise.
5: Jeremy Whitely. Wrote X-men monster Unleashed one-shot. Had some fun with Gambit and Laura. Potential in this guy, witch Marvel seems to have missed.

Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2020, 07:33:21 AM »
CBR has gone very hive mind and protective about Hickman and hox. It’s either you love it think it’s brilliant or you’re an idiot (and secretly racist) if you don’t like it.

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2020, 08:20:55 AM »
I realised after issue 1 or 2 of Excalibur that I had read something else from Tini. She released a 4 issue mini about Death's head just before excalibur. I grew up with Death's Head 2 so there is some attachement to that corner of Marvel. I only got through 3 issues of that mini. First issue was ok then it got jumbled and messy. She introduced 1 new character: Death's head 3 that was mostly cringy to read. She wrote a ok relationship with Wiccan-Hulkling but that was due to going with the neverending stream of conciousness dialouge mode with them. It drowned out the pages and got a bit boring. Her villain was not a threat. Overall it was written for Young readers that haven't seen Jar Jar binks yet.

KT in general disapointed with to much focus on Rogue. Still there was some good Gambit moments in her Mr&Mrs X run. There was just to few considering it should have been a 50/50 book.

Favorite Gambit writers the latest 10 years:

1: Marjorie Liu(Asmus wrote him with more style but Liu had the character interactions. Loved her Paris arc in X-23)
2: James Asmus. Got the charm and danger.
3: Tom Taylor. Fun, Dangerous, competent and respected by other X-men.
4: KT. Wrote mostly ROMY and while I enjoyed that I missed other aspects of gambit. Last arc was her best Gambit wise.
5: Jeremy Whitely. Wrote X-men monster Unleashed one-shot. Had some fun with Gambit and Laura. Potential in this guy, witch Marvel seems to have missed.

I grew up with Death's Head II as well. I picked up the first issue because of the X-Men and really just loved DHII as a character. His dialogue was awesome, almost a proto-Deadpool mixed with Wolverine. I still remember the scene where Rogue tried to absorb him and got overwhelmed by the the people in his head, resulting in her collapsing in his arms.

DHII: "Are you swooning? I didn't know girls still swooned."



I was excited when I heard about the new DH series but I couldn't get through it, either.  A shame.

I think Mr. and Mrs. X would have been a lot better with a more even focus and less rehashing of past relationships.

CBR has gone very hive mind and protective about Hickman and hox. It’s either you love it think it’s brilliant or you’re an idiot (and secretly racist) if you don’t like it.

There's a lot of that across the industry right now, but CBR is becoming the tip of that spear. Demonize and invalidate all who offer criticism, so they can just dismiss it.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2020, 10:15:10 AM »
Congratulations to Remydat, he's going to be a Daddy! Yay! I know he doesn't visit here often but I wanted those here to know. :)

Offline RomeoSvengali

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2020, 10:15:44 PM »
From Death's Head, to Bêlit, to Strikeforce and now Excalibur, Tini simply can't write any character right, she either thinks it's great or she doesn't care. I've lost count as to how many times the people at CBR have gotten info wrong, they and WatchMojo.com have so many pointless and inaccurate lists, all they do is read from wiki or reddit or not even that. Their profiles say that there comic book, video game, and movie nerds, but that's a crock of s**t. I remember some Summer Special issues that had 48 PAGES! NO ADS!
https://comiconlinefree.com/the-punisher-summer-special/issue-1

But those are separate storylines and the last few pages are usually just an art gallery.
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Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2020, 08:51:03 AM »
From Death's Head, to Bêlit, to Strikeforce and now Excalibur, Tini simply can't write any character right, she either thinks it's great or she doesn't care. I've lost count as to how many times the people at CBR have gotten info wrong, they and WatchMojo.com have so many pointless and inaccurate lists, all they do is read from wiki or reddit or not even that. Their profiles say that there comic book, video game, and movie nerds, but that's a crock of s**t. I remember some Summer Special issues that had 48 PAGES! NO ADS!
https://comiconlinefree.com/the-punisher-summer-special/issue-1

But those are separate storylines and the last few pages are usually just an art gallery.

It seems that way with Tini. Seeing that we have no way of confirming what she thinks the option that she thinks it's great seems more then likely. Add to that the only reviewers of comics these days are skirting on with 8-9,5 for Excalibur it's hard to take them serious. Easy for Tini to slip into a echo chamber of yes people, resulting in that she doesn't improve.

I know that people have different reasons for reading comics but for any long term reader it's hard to think that characters aren't important. The premise of X-men have changed. It's now more about mutants vs the world. Pretty much all we have left is the characters and in general Hickman doesn't care about that. Writting exciting characters aren't his strength. Whitch is odd seeing that he wants to break into Hollywood. With the exception of writting his own movie he has to work with serialised characters in TV. Where it's all about the characters. I loved Fringe, a show I would assume he wanted to work on, but it's 50/50 the science and it's characters. He can't skip on one of them and skate by as he does in comics.

What I'm trying to say is that as long as Hickman is in charge Tini will be in favor. He needs writers that complement him. Not worse versions of him.

My hope now is that a new comic will be launched and Gambit will move over to that one.