Author Topic: Gambit Watch 2020  (Read 6844 times)

Offline purplevit

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #165 on: February 27, 2020, 11:56:16 AM »
I am not the biggest MCU fan and dodn't like half or even more of it's movies but KF deserves his praise.


He fought for his vision and won. He fought to have that complete control.
I respect that dude.


Blak Panther is overrated as hell. That movie wasn't nowhere as good as people wants it to be.

Offline bigbarda

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #166 on: February 27, 2020, 12:40:13 PM »
THANK YOU! KF is overrated as hell. He's competent but so many others could have done what he did, and better, if they had complete control of the helm. THAT was WB/DC's problem.


The only single franchise equivalent to the MCU in quality control (that I can think of) is Sean Connery James Bond, and that was a completely different era of Hollywood. What KF has done is unprecedented- Tim Burton, Richard Donner, Spielberg, James Cameron and George Lucas all weren't able to helm or produce franchises with 20+ films without one of them becoming a laughing stock. Sure, some MCU films are overrated but they're all a solid 3/5 or above. KF has overseen that while dealing with Bob Iger and other Disney high-ups.


This article on Wild Wild West is great reading if you want to get an insight into how producers and other higher-ups can torpedo a movie.


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Blak Panther is overrated as hell. That movie wasn't nowhere as good as people wants it to be.


BP is a really solid movie until the rushed CGI fight sequence at the end. It's important for upturning established Hollywood-mogul-wisdom that white people won't go and see a movie with a (nearly) all black cast. Studio heads and producers assume that because something hasn't happened before (or, if they haven't noticed something happening) that it can't happen.


Fox thought that the X-men franchise needed Wolverine front-and-centre (and then young Magneto/Xavier) to work, and every other character got screwed. I'm excited to see what KF will do with mutants in general.


ETA: Gore Verbinski knows where to point a camera and work with a studio. He can do a decent movie if the script's there.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 12:43:40 PM by bigbarda »

Offline hairlesscat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #167 on: February 27, 2020, 12:57:45 PM »
Quote from: purplevit link=topic=5271. msg77628#msg77628 date=1582822576
I am not the biggest MCU fan and dodn't like half or even more of it's movies but KF deserves his praise. 


He fought for his vision and won.  He fought to have that complete control. 
I respect that dude.
None of that makes him a creative genius.


Quote from:
Blak Panther is overrated as hell.  That movie wasn't nowhere as good as people wants it to be.
BP had excellent, layered storytelling with who is easily one of the (if not THE) most interesting and complex villains in all of the MCU. As an added bonus, it also managed to be a more feminist movie that Wonder Woman and completely busted the "Go woke and go broke" myth to pieces. Don't agree with you at all. But different strokes and all that.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 01:03:18 PM by hairlesscat »

Offline andresa

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #168 on: February 27, 2020, 02:28:20 PM »
None of that makes him a creative genius.


I have to disagree. There had never been this much control over a franchise before Feige. He created a shared universe like never seen before. An achievement that all other studios are trying and failing to emulate. The MCU success goes to show how focused and visionary Feige is.

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BP had excellent, layered storytelling with who is easily one of the (if not THE) most interesting and complex villains in all of the MCU. As an added bonus, it also managed to be a more feminist movie that Wonder Woman and completely busted the "Go woke and go broke" myth to pieces. Don't agree with you at all. But different strokes and all that.


I also think Black Panther is totally overrated. Not as bad as Captain Marvel or Thor 2 but not nearly as good as the so-called progressives want it to be. Having a solid villain (which is its greatest merit) only takes you so far. The script is nothing special and that CGI fight is just horrible.

Go woko go broke isn’t a myth; it happens every other month. The audience go to the movies to see blockbusters to have fun, they’re not interested in agenda being pushed down their throats. And as much as I enjoy the MCU, their success won’t last forever and the more they go down the woko road, the quicker their hegemony will fade away. I'm dying to see the X-Men in the MCU and I also want them to be recognizable and not shadows of the characters I love.

Offline hairlesscat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #169 on: February 27, 2020, 03:07:51 PM »

I have to disagree. There had never been this much control over a franchise before Feige. He created a shared universe like never seen before. An achievement that all other studios are trying and failing to emulate. The MCU success goes to show how focused and visionary Feige is.

We're just gonna have to disagree on that one.

Quote from:
Go woko go broke isn’t a myth; it happens every other month. The audience go to the movies to see blockbusters to have fun, they’re not interested in agenda being pushed down their throats. And as much as I enjoy the MCU, their success won’t last forever and the more they go down the woko road, the quicker their hegemony will fade away. I'm dying to see the X-Men in the MCU and I also want them to be recognizable and not shadows of the characters I love.
The fact that woke movies have failed does not somehow prove that they failed BECAUSE they were woke. Charlie's Angels is a great example of that. Despite what a lot of people would have loved to believe, CA failed because it wasn't marketed well, no one really wanted another CA movie and it really wasn't that great. It has nothing to do with the "girl power" theme at all because we have seen plenty of movies in the same vein succeed at the box office.


BP busted that myth on a MASSIVE scale. That movie was *extremely* woke and did exceptionally well at the box office. Why? Because it was an excellent movie and did a great job of world-building to immerse you. There are many other "woke" movies that have gotten both critical acclaim and commercial success, but BP is a massive one. Hence it busts the myth that a woke movie is not going to do well. It isn't about the movie being "woke", it is about it actually being a good movie that resonates with audiences. Period.

Offline andresa

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #170 on: February 27, 2020, 04:16:32 PM »
The fact that woke movies have failed does not somehow prove that they failed BECAUSE they were woke. Charlie's Angels is a great example of that.

Charlie's Angels is by no means a good movie neither is the last Terminator (which made extremely pissed since the first two Terminator movies are two of my favorite movies of all time). They were sold as woke and people just weren’t interested. When these movies failed financially the directors came forward to blame and even insult the audience, ignoring the fact that these movies are bad. Captain Marvel and Black Panther made loads of money because they carry the Marvel label.

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Despite what a lot of people would have loved to believe, CA failed because it wasn't marketed well, no one really wanted another CA movie and it really wasn't that great. It has nothing to do with the "girl power" theme at all because we have seen plenty of movies in the same vein succeed at the box office.

There’s a difference between tackling certain issues and being on the nose with such issues. Movies marketed as woke fail (if aren’t MCU) because the audience aren't interested in progressive agenda, and also the people involved in these movies tend to alienate the bigger chunk of their audience by being self-righteous idiots.   

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BP busted that myth on a MASSIVE scale. That movie was *extremely* woke and did exceptionally well at the box office. Why? Because it was an excellent movie and did a great job of world-building to immerse you.

Again, it’s a Marvel movie. Marvel movies sell well regardless of being great or mediocre (CM made money even though it’s one of the worst MCU movies with an obnoxious leading actress). Calling Black Panther an excellent movie is a matter of opinion and we’ll have to agree to disagree on that.   

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There are many other "woke" movies that have gotten both critical acclaim and commercial success, but BP is a massive one. Hence it busts the myth that a woke movie is not going to do well.

Black Panther is more of an exception than the rule. Also, there’s lots of manipulation and tendentiousness when it comes to critics.

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It isn't about the movie being "woke", it is about it actually being a good movie that resonates with audiences. Period.

Exactly, so when directors and studios learn to stop worrying about making woke, “relevant” movies and focus on making good movies, then the audience will go see them. Since this is the closest we’ll get to sort of agreeing, I rest my case. I’m not into this back and forth of opinions. I’m here to talk about Gambit.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 04:21:57 PM by andresa »

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #171 on: February 27, 2020, 05:26:23 PM »
Oh Lord! What hath I done?!


Put me in the KF is overrated, and many, if given control, could have done the same thing. Now, credit that he got it...but, creative genius he ain't (IMHO).


And Black Panther was MASSIVELY overrated. But it wasn't "Woke". Again just my humble opinion.
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Offline andresa

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #172 on: February 27, 2020, 10:17:55 PM »

Offline purplevit

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #173 on: February 28, 2020, 03:35:21 AM »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #174 on: February 28, 2020, 12:25:20 PM »
Gravity defying hair! LOL

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #175 on: February 28, 2020, 04:55:02 PM »
Oh Lord! What hath I done?!


Put me in the KF is overrated, and many, if given control, could have done the same thing. Now, credit that he got it...but, creative genius he ain't (IMHO).


And Black Panther was MASSIVELY overrated. But it wasn't "Woke". Again just my humble opinion.


Black Panther was as woke as it gets.


1.  Female warriors that rival any man.
2.  A villain literally with an ideology straight from the militant Black Panther movement.
3.  A child whose father was taken from him due to symbolic black on black crime.
4.  A child whose replacement potential father figure abandoned him to be raised by a single mother.
5.  The conflict between black people living in relative poverty and the well to do Wakanda society that hid away their wealth and talent while others suffered.
6.  The white man stealing the resources of black people for their own advancement.
7.  The pretentiousness of the world powers at the thought that a predominantly black nation could have more advanced tech.


In short, it couldn't be more woke.  The whole concept of Wakanda was at the time it was introduced a woke concept.  Stan Lee was pretty much the first social justice warrior in comics as the X-men concept as a whole was an allegory for wokeness.
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Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #176 on: February 28, 2020, 04:55:46 PM »
Here is how I would introduce Gambit given the expected ties between Disney+ and the eventual movies.


1. Solo series first season focused on the his time with the Guilds

2. Solo series 2nd season dealing with his exile and his making a name for himself in criminal underworld including his meeting the Marauders before they were Marauders ie relationship with Scalphunter, run in with Sabretooth. etc.

3. Solo series 3rd season focused on his powers flaring out of control and his enlisting Sinister to help.

4. Solo series 4th season where Sinister asks Gambit to form Marauders and them going on a few missions to build the semblance of a camaraderie.

5. X-men movie regarding the mutant massacre where Gambit appears without ever actually meeting the X-men but having close encounters throughout. Culminates in battle in Morlock tunnels where Gambit is defeated but then X-men defeat Marauders in another section of tunnels. Movie ends with scenes of the fallout and Gambit making the decision to try and be a hero.

6. Solo series 5th season where Gambit tries to turn over a new leaf and culminates with him helping Storm.

7. X-men movie where Gambit joins the X-men at Storms request and meets Rogue.

8. Solo series 6th season that chronicles Gambit trying to keep his side jobs hidden from X-men while courting Rogue who because a regular on show.

9. X-men movie where Gambit's part in mutant massacre is discovered and he is abandoned.

10. Solo series 7th season that chronicles Gambit's time away from X-men ending with his eventual return.


That would cover the key points in my view. I suppose you could also arrange the solo series where you introduce Rogue earlier and before she meets Gambit and so the TV show would basically switch between showing Gambit's journey with Rogue's (Cody, brotherhood, etc.). So something similar to say the Witcher where Geralt and Ciri spend the whole season just missing each other as it builds up to them actually meeting.




edit: fixed formatting, to make it easier to read. Neko
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 07:55:12 PM by Nekobaghira »
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Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #177 on: February 28, 2020, 07:09:56 PM »
I know there is too much spacing Remydat but the site was fighting with me. I'd rather more space than one long wall of text. LOL
Great ideas for a TV show.

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #178 on: February 28, 2020, 09:52:13 PM »
No worries Neko. 
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #179 on: February 28, 2020, 11:51:59 PM »
I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread over whether something is 'woke' or not have more to do with what their definition of woke is. I see Stan Lee as a advocate for Social Justice, not a modern 'Social Justice Warrior' and all the negative connotations that entails. Likewise the term 'woke' started out as a "term of African-American origin that refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice." As being 'woke' became trendy, it became distorted and corrupted. We started to see 'woke' presentations in entertainment that gave a newer definition to 'woke' that includes pandering, preachy lecturing that often results in unbelievable dialogue, token and paper-thin characters that exists as little more than their diversity, characters being Mary Sued because of diversity and a lot of other negative things.

When a lot of people object to 'wokeness', that is what they are objecting to. You can have something that is very diverse and socially just and not be what many would consider 'woke'. You can have something that is barely diverse and not really socially just at all and have it be 'woke' as hell, in the modern and more current negative usage of the word.

My two cents.