Author Topic: Gambit Watch 2020  (Read 24192 times)

Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #180 on: February 29, 2020, 12:01:35 PM »
Could be something to that. Most Christian people I know, don’t go to the ‘Christian movies’, because they tend to be ‘preachy’. Even though they basically agree with the message, they don’t go to the movies for a sermon/ lecture.


Anyway, I was joke with the ‘you’re not a genius like Fiege’ comment. And Remy dat, your series sounds great. It would be perfect.  ;D

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #181 on: February 29, 2020, 09:50:35 PM »
I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread over whether something is 'woke' or not have more to do with what their definition of woke is. I see Stan Lee as a advocate for Social Justice, not a modern 'Social Justice Warrior' and all the negative connotations that entails. Likewise the term 'woke' started out as a "term of African-American origin that refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice." As being 'woke' became trendy, it became distorted and corrupted. We started to see 'woke' presentations in entertainment that gave a newer definition to 'woke' that includes pandering, preachy lecturing that often results in unbelievable dialogue, token and paper-thin characters that exists as little more than their diversity, characters being Mary Sued because of diversity and a lot of other negative things.

When a lot of people object to 'wokeness', that is what they are objecting to. You can have something that is very diverse and socially just and not be what many would consider 'woke'. You can have something that is barely diverse and not really socially just at all and have it be 'woke' as hell, in the modern and more current negative usage of the word.

My two cents.

Well said. I believe many of my ethical and political leanings came as a result of reading Marvel comics. It shaped me in many ways when growing up.

Offline bigbarda

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #182 on: March 01, 2020, 10:33:30 AM »
American comics (as opposed to European comics or manga which have very different political leanings) were founded by the working-class children of Jewish refugees who were excluded from the professions of the time by their race. Like Hollywood, it was a new industry that didn't have the same barriers to entry as law, marketing etc.* They are inherently political. Captain America was punching Hitler before America joined WW2!


The X-men are an even more blatant metaphor for minority communities, and CC went full blast on that theme when he took over the title in the 70s. Complaining that an MCU film is pushing a political agenda is like complaining that your lemonade has citric acid in it.


There is no such thing as an apolitical movie or comic. There are movies and comics which seem apolticial to Reader A because they depict the world as Reader A sees it, or reflect the belief system of Reader A. Reader B might read that same comic a completely different way.


As an example, as an Irish person living in the UK I see this *all the time* when British history is portrayed in the media in what the portrayer thinks is a neutral POV. There's a lot of writing about Oliver Cromwell and the English Civil War that do not mention Ireland. Ignoring Cromwell's legacy in Ireland (e.g burning cities to the ground) isn't being neutral- it's subscribing to a type of inherent bias on what constitutes objectivity.


Quote
Well said. I believe many of my ethical and political leanings came as a result of reading Marvel comics. It shaped me in many ways when growing up.


Stan Lee's Bullpen Bulletins and the empathy with which he talked about characters like Spiderman had a big effect on me as well.

ANYWAY, I get a feeling that the MCU X-men are going to lean into mutants as stigmatised others. I really want a Revered Stryker or Graydon Creed popping up in the background of other MCU properties talking about the mutant menace, or maybe even Logan got into that a bit, but we didn't see much of the wider world outside Wolverine's direct POV.


*Two notable exceptions are William Moulton Marston, creator of Wonder Woman, and Steve Ditko.

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2020, 11:34:41 AM »
I think a lot of the disagreements in this thread over whether something is 'woke' or not have more to do with what their definition of woke is. I see Stan Lee as a advocate for Social Justice, not a modern 'Social Justice Warrior' and all the negative connotations that entails. Likewise the term 'woke' started out as a "term of African-American origin that refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice." As being 'woke' became trendy, it became distorted and corrupted. We started to see 'woke' presentations in entertainment that gave a newer definition to 'woke' that includes pandering, preachy lecturing that often results in unbelievable dialogue, token and paper-thin characters that exists as little more than their diversity, characters being Mary Sued because of diversity and a lot of other negative things.

When a lot of people object to 'wokeness', that is what they are objecting to. You can have something that is very diverse and socially just and not be what many would consider 'woke'. You can have something that is barely diverse and not really socially just at all and have it be 'woke' as hell, in the modern and more current negative usage of the word.

My two cents.


I agree with a lot of that but I would make it a bit simpler.


1.  You like it.  Not woke but just diverse and socially just


2.  You hate it.  Woke and everything wrong with the PC world.


Speaking in broad generalizations of course but point being for the people this sort of stuff matters you can never have something "woke" that is also good as you change the definition to exclude anything good in the category of "woke".
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 11:37:12 AM by remydat »
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Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #184 on: March 04, 2020, 06:36:30 PM »
Another issue of Excaliber out and its not liked very much at the other place.

Not sure why this title hasn't been cancelled yet. Is it sheeple (people and sheep) buying this book blindly and not reading it? No clue.
I'm glad I never supported to begin with.

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #185 on: March 04, 2020, 07:21:03 PM »
Can Tini just kill Gambit and get it over with? I haven't seen this much character assassination of Gambit since the Assassin's Guild had a contract on his life.
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Offline Meliorist

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #186 on: March 04, 2020, 08:35:51 PM »
It's getting worse? I haven't had the energy to read the last couple, so I'm in the dark

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #187 on: March 04, 2020, 09:03:15 PM »
I will summarize what I've read from the other place.

What fans are saying, they want to like the book but the writing and art make it difficult. Mostly execution with the premise that is failing among other story elements then maybe, there should be some editorial interference. Poor spacing, an odd flow story-wise.

Those who gave up the book, don't regret not buying. That says something, imo.
It seems that the dynamics are conflicting in general. Why kill off the 'bad guys' but keep a 'baby'.

Clunky.

There were other comments but in general, thats the ideas.

Oh, and btw - their warwolf baby can't compete with Baby Yoda. IMO
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 11:09:26 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Meliorist

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #188 on: March 05, 2020, 01:21:56 AM »
Yeah, can definitely see that. Read the first 3 or 4 and kept thinking, "This can't be the story she meant to tell."

Offline hairlesscat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #189 on: March 05, 2020, 03:57:02 AM »
This is going to sound weird, but I kind of checked out on comic book Gambit sometime after Asmus's solo series got canceled. Whenever I want to read new stories about Gambit, I just read fan fiction. It is usually much better written anyway. I have long since resigned myself to the fact that the X-office is full of rather unprofessional writers who only care about writing their personal favourite characters well and no one else. And since Gambit seems to be no one's favourite right now, I can't expect good stories to come from them.

I've always known that eventually, the X-men would be absorbed into the MCU and - realizing what a dynamic character Gambit is - they would give him a reasonably large role. This is essentially going to force X-office writers to start writing quality stories about him. But until then? I'm good.

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #190 on: March 05, 2020, 12:12:09 PM »
Another issue of Excaliber out and its not liked very much at the other place.

Not sure why this title hasn't been cancelled yet. Is it sheeple (people and sheep) buying this book blindly and not reading it? No clue.
I'm glad I never supported to begin with.

I checked the numbers. Excalibur #6 sold 5k more units then Fallen Angels #6. Fallen Angels was reviled yet still ended at 40K. That is how much impact the Hickman HoX/DoX effect has. Without that I doubt Excalibur would be doing very well. Too niche. Badly written. I would say that it depends on how many people want to read a Apocalypse comic.

I'm still waiting for someone to adress Tini's lack of vision and handle on 3,5(Counting Betsy as a 0,5) of 5 characters in her team. Hell even Rictor is not written well. It's just that he hasn't been used to such an extent that fans complain. They just want to see him in comics.

Offline cajunpirate

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #191 on: March 05, 2020, 01:11:17 PM »
Excaliber #8 cover...


Top row trophy heads: Gambit, Betsy & Rogue
Middle row: Apocalypse, ?, Jubilee
Bottom right under Jubilee: ?


One of the two ? has to be Rictor, and who is the other one suppose to be?


Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #192 on: March 05, 2020, 01:27:36 PM »

Another issue of Excaliber out and its not liked very much at the other place.

Not sure why this title hasn't been cancelled yet. Is it sheeple (people and sheep) buying this book blindly and not reading it? No clue.
I'm glad I never supported to begin with.



You guys still reading it? I won't even bother looking at the previews or pirating it.


...Too niche. Badly written. I would say that it depends on how many people want to read a Apocalypse comic.



I like Apocalypse... that ain't Apocalypse.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 01:32:54 PM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline anya

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #193 on: March 05, 2020, 01:40:14 PM »
It's getting worse? I haven't had the energy to read the last couple, so I'm in the dark
Not  quite ‘worse’, in this issue gambit was not actually useless. The scene where he is running from a war wolf was actually rogue and they were flushing out Cullen. Of course the scene was disjointed and should have been longer/more fleshed out. But there was some completely pointless scenes convos with Rictor jubilee and betsy that clearly needed to be there... Also, according to the people who read avengers academy, Cullen Bloodstone is absolutely nothing like this. So another character is ‘off.’


And baby war wolf is not even close to baby yoda...

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #194 on: March 05, 2020, 04:36:53 PM »
Anyone got an image of the baby war wolf?