Author Topic: Gambit Watch 2020  (Read 6753 times)

Offline Icefanatic

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2020, 11:22:38 AM »
Turns out Excaliber #6 seemed to upset the romys at the other place. While I feel for them, it was good to see the blinders off and actually see what the  Gambit only fans have seen for some time.


When you can read a comment like - "you couldn't try harder much to alienate Gambit's fans"  - that says something.


I saw that there and was going to post the whole paragraph its from here because it is so spot on in it's assessment of what is wrong with Excalibur.

Quote
By AppleJ at CBR

I'm seriously at a loss with this book. You couldn't have tried much harder to alienate Gambit fans. There is absolutely no Blue Team synergy. Rogue and Gambit feel unbalanced and out of character half the time. I didn't find it fun or funny overall save a cute moment here or a neat idea there (firepupRachel, dragon Shogo) and a few sexy panels. It's not hitting me emotionally even when it tries, the plot has seemed almost pointless and yet the characters still seem to serve the plot moreso than the story serving them. It felt like sitting in a room watching other people playing DnD where the characters are just a basic outline, no one can act, and not much actually gets accomplished. There were no amazing fight scenes. At the end of this they still don't feel like any kind of cohesive team. The art has been gorgeous throughout but it's not enough to save the book for me. I still don't know what mutant magic is.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2020, 01:58:08 PM »
Oof, this will be long, quoting peeps and all that.  LOL
 
Lol I got banned for making a joke about there not being a Romy baby.


I think I’m gonna trade wait Excalibur just because it pisses the Romy shippers off. Yeah, Gambit’s portrayal sucks, but someone could come in and say, “I NEED to write Gambit.” At this point though, I just want to bask in Romy shippers displeasure.


You said what I thought.

Edit:Comments deemed inappropriate, apologies to anyone or all who may have been offended.
Romeo has a link where you read for free.
Just read it for free.
https://comiconlinefree.com/comic/excalibur-2019

Another thing to point out:


Gambit is almost surely gonna be making appearances in Children of the Atom, so hopefully Vita can deliver on good Gambit content even if he isn’t a star of the book (and I’ll admit that the idea of Gambit having a sidekick type character sounds fun, I just hope they all have different names. As much as love Kate Bishop and Laura’s stint as Wolverine, it’s led to some arguments and jokes that I’m tired of at this point).

I like the sidekick idea too, I guess we'll see how it turns out. I no longer trust writers or editors with their pr hype for projects. I don't think they purposely try to bamboozle but it happens anyway.
I like ROMY. More in theory then what we have gotten on the pages. It should be a no-brainer couple for marvel. Especially for Rogue writers. Here is a character who should love Rogue and let her be herself, because that's the girl he loves. Not this dotting one note punchingbag. Rogue writers should be overjoyed. Pair her up with any other character and they would control her, dot on her or move her away from her roots. Magneto for instance could never have such a free spirited partner. He is all about control and he doesn't conform.

If this is what Marvel wants then lets break them up. When Gambit was single too little was done with that. When he's with Rogue he's just a moon orbiting her. Historically Gambit writers have written a better Rogue then the opposite. So bring in a Gambit fan as a writer. Give the ROMY marriage one last try and then we will see what happens.

I agree with your assessment. And I also agree that this couple could be written well and possibly win over the Gambit only fan. While it wouldn't be something that would appeal to me but I do recognize a good or well written romance when presented.

 
Yeah, I think Gambit writers do write Rogue well, look at Asmus. I think what bothers me and you've touched on it. Is Gambit's personality and traits have disappeared in general. He has no voice or agency beyond Rogue. It does come down to Rogue's writers as she clearly preferred over the two characters. What is baffling and I've said this before is the last two writers are women. Maybe I'm being sexist but I would have thought women would get romance far more easily than men. I am perplexed because I do read women authors who can write men really well and still keep the female lead strong.
 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 09:16:12 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2020, 02:09:40 PM »
I haven't read the issue but there is some odd things with the dialogue.

The conversation about having babies. Gambit comes across alright in acknowledging its Rogue's body and that he's fine with the choice. She doesn't want to have a baby, thats fine. It's how it was written that seems to be rubbing the wrong way for some.

There are plenty of people who don't want children, and others who look forward to the experience.

I'm not sure what the writer is trying to say, it could be a hornet's nest if not handled well. The other thing I've noticed people observed is that Rogue was cold to Gambit, like 1990's cold.

It's difficult to buy into the marriage with these sorts of things. Most people talk about children prior to getting married. It's a couple topic, now? - they're talking about it. This really is not a good thing. People get divorced over these sorts of things.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 02:11:43 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2020, 04:40:30 PM »
I wrote an actual review of the damn Excalibur number 6 on CBR. I tried my hardest to be fair but I expect it to be massacred anyway. Gave it a 5. With different categories dividing  the points. The few current reviewers of comics like Excalibur are off on some drug induced journey for Avalon with the scores. Giving issue 1-5 between 8-9,5. Witch is just absurd. 10 is suppose to be the highest. Reserved for your Miller Daredevil, Moore Batman or Morrisson All-star Superman. Yet these people are trying to argue that Excalibur are 8 as lowest. What the heck is a 0 or 1 then? A white paper with a stick figure saying superhero misspelled to "S4per Herg".
Overall Tini has no desire in Gambit beyond Rogue.

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2020, 05:55:20 PM »
I'm going to post this here. R0d used to post here so, I'll lean a little. He's not visited in some time, so ... here we are.

From the review thread for Excaliber #6. Snipped for the only points I wish to have a response for discussion. :)
 
Quote
R0d: CBR:
Saved the worst for last, man Rogue and Gambit are unbearable in this book, when a writer makes you hate your favorites characters, you know things are beyond bad.

 
Talking about Rogue, she seems cold and uncaring towards Gambit, making it all the more jarring given that Gambit acts in the exact opposite way. That difference makes Gambit look completely emasculated and just pathetic.

 
PS: For those in the Gambit and Rogue pro-divorce camp, if the baby ain't happening then this might be an easy way out in the future and it's pretty simple actually, Gambit wants to have kids at some point but Rogue is determined that she would never want that, then boom clean divorce and no one comes out of it looking like an awful person or a cheater or dead.

 
The coldness doesn't make sense. The conversation about children should have happened before getting married. Prior adaptations lead the reader to believe they wanted a family. There are books with them having children. AU's or not, it showed they had similar goals. The children thing is an obstacle in reality for lots of people and its divorce material.

The thing that makes me think too much is I don't think the children thing is being handled well.

Rogue not wanting children is fine. Gambit wanting children is fine too. Certainly shouldn't be forced to procreate. I think the subject matter is murky. What is trying to be said here in the book, its odd.

 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 06:01:38 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2020, 11:18:04 PM »
I'll add this to my previous comment. While I'm still fairly convinced that Rogue is/will be pregnant. I also do strongly believe that there is an Apocalypse-related twist involved. I'm mainly referring to Rogue's dream sequence in #5. Later in that issue Apocalypse sees/senses something inside of Gambit (the remaining Death-persona I'm guessing or seed?), Rogue was under Apocalypse's care while asleep and she absorbed him later on. Gambit and Rogue conceive, that's probably why we have a "sex-in-the-tub" scene. Both now with a connection to Apocalypse. Rogue not wanting a kid probably adds to the angst/drama going forward.

That's my theory anyway. Unless all this baby-talk and symbolism are just throwaway lines that leads to nothing. Which could happen, yes, but it all sounds too anti-climactic and also comes down to poor and lazy writing as well. So for all this foreshadowing...it needs to follow through to something.

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2020, 11:12:13 AM »
I am calling the baby being Rogue and Apocalypse's rather than Rogue and Gambit's.  Given how much Tini seems to hate Gambit, it will be fitting that Rogue has a baby for someone else so we can all laugh at the poor chump Gambit.
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2020, 12:41:53 PM »
No matter who the father is, its a subject that needs to be handled with care. There is all sorts of directions and far too political for a comic book.I don't like the story-line.

Maybe I'm looking at too closely for a comic book.
So, the new ship name is Rocalypse.  LOL

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2020, 12:56:35 PM »
When did that become political?

Either way, I'm a little disappointed. We've never delighted in others misery before. Strange to see it here. Even stranger to find that anyone here was actually enjoying Excalibur. The book sucks. Not just from how Tini is writing my favorite characters but like everything... It's like she has NO clue about the characters she's writing at all.

About that... EVERY ITERATION OF ROGUE HAS WANTED TO START A FAMILY. This isn't about wanting/ not wanting to have children. That's a choice for everyone. But this doesn't make ANY sense. Not being able to have children has been one of Rogue's biggest fears. This is a woman that feared that she'd never have family. Now she's chosen to never have one? That's not Rogue's mindset. Never been. Never.


In a lot of circles a woman having kids is looked at as some sort of shackle that prevents them from living a better life or playing into a "gender roles". From someone with a wife that wants kids but physically can't, changing Rogue like this on the lines of "just because" is a bit insulting on one end and heartbreaking on another.


And the only thing 'steamy' about the hot tub scene was the @&#& water. I'm glad I bailed on this dumb @&$ book 2 issues in.

And I don't think these kids from Children of the Atom are truly "sidekicks" that #&#& would make zero sense. Vita "like", as in she wrote them 'as if'.

Preference A; this is story about the fodder-class Chimera from Moira's 9th life

Preference B; their members of the mutant worshippers and just obsessive fans. Though that doesn't explain how they grew up with posters of Storm and Wolverine on their walls.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:58:10 PM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2020, 01:31:25 PM »
IMO - It's political because if she does get pregnant, there are decisions to be made, from keeping, d&c procedure/medical options, adoption, and whatever emotional toll that comes with all of that. Add to possible complications with pregnancy that also is a factor. She is saying she doesn't want kids. Getting pregnant when you don't want a baby is a big deal. I know people who got divorced because the wife didn't want children and the hubby did. Again, I'm probably looking too deep into it and glad I don't buy this book.

Despite what the stats say. We've got maybe at most ten posters who participate regularly. Guests who don't bother and spammers who waste my time. And that stat that refers to that large group online, is false information. The site was hit by people who got mad and spent a couple of bucks to have a bot in China hit this site.

Again:
I apologize to any and all who may have been hurt or offended by myself and bigstupidjellyfish.


 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 08:34:00 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2020, 02:17:50 PM »
I'm not sure which parts of that were responses to my post. Little lost. The political question was less about Rogue/Gambit and more about people choosing to have kids or not. I was talking about that. Sorry if I blended thoughts. Wasn't my intention.


And I wasn't aware you were dancing on graves yourself lol. I think we all know your stance by now. That's a reality we're all used to. No harm there. My concern, not for myself because this isn't really much of a way to move me, but it was just odd to see it having as much fans for as against here.


Also the second part about stats... Not sure what that means?


Other than horrid characterization of Gambit throughout this "book" my biggest irk is how this was presented. Rogue has spent 4 out 6 books in a box. She emerges from it, murders Apocalypse in one and then declares that she has no interest in ever having children in the next ... That's not an impossible development. But you know what would have helped? Seeing her come to such a thought logically.


This is a comic book. We have access to her mind. This Tini could have shown us these nightmares she was having throughout the 4 issues she was sidelined. Let us empathize with her. Relate to her. Not just basically say "because". What was also weird is that Gambit was just "oh well". I'd say Gambit was just being supportive and maybe we'll get a more candid  response, but... You know that's not happening.


Like you said Neko, this is a discussion that happens waaaaay before now. Gambit should have had some sort of reaction other than that, but I don't think Tini has it in her to competently navigate a mature discussion from both sides of this particular argument. All we're going to get is Gambit saying "yes, dear". I've NEVER used the word cuck but @&##&# @&#&#.


Yes it's her body. She should have final say. But that's not how marriage works. At least not it's supposed to work. The fact that  Gambit has no say in such a decision should have been what made him at least question it. She had a bad dream, so she shut down her womb? That's it? Case closed? Tini's a hack.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 12:14:53 AM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2020, 03:35:06 PM »
Its all good. It was a meaningless tangent to downplay opinions and purchasing habits. People aren't using forums for decision making when buying comic books.  We're not influencing is all. :)
As for the rest of your comments, agree.




Offline Toadman005

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2020, 03:37:25 PM »
Remy LeCuck.


Ugh.
\"Say, do you hear that? It\'s the sound of the Reaper...\"

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2020, 04:23:35 PM »
Other than horrid characterization of Gambit throughout this "book" my biggest irk is how this was presented. Rogue has spent 4 out 6 books in a box. She emerges from it, murders Apocalypse in one and then declares that she has no interest in ever having children in the next ... That's not an impossible development. But you know what would have helped? Seeing her come to such a thought logically.


This is a comic book. We have access to her mind. This Tini could have shown us these nightmares she was having throughout the 4 issues she was sidelined. Let us emphasize with her. Relate to her. Not just basically say "because". What was also weird is that Gambit was just "oh well". I'd say Gambit was just being supportive and maybe we'll get a more candid  response, but... You know that's not happening.


Like you said Neko, this is a discussion that happens waaaaay before now. Gambit should have had some sort of reaction other than that, but I don't think Tini has it in her to competently navigate a mature discussion from both sides of this particular argument. All we're going to get is Gambit saying "yes, dear". I've NEVER used the word cuck but @&##&# @&#&#.


Yes it's her body. She should have final say. But that's not how marriage works. At least not it's supposed to work. The fact that  Gambit has no say in such a decision should have been what made him at least question it. She had a bad dream, so she shut down her womb? That's it? Case closed? Tini's a hack.


I keep thinking about AoA Rogue with her son Charles. Or exile character Magnus, who ofc is the son of Rouge and Magneto. Both times Rogue is a very devoted mother and happy that she has a child. A character who wanted children.


Tini either doesn’t understand how bad she is or she doesn’t care? It’s like she is trying to provoke us with how she jumps from bad interaction to another.


Pregnancy is a question for the woman if she wants to or not. Her body, her choice. At least that’s my stance. Either way the reason to stay is equally Gambits. There where talks about how they wanted a family. If she changes her mind then Gambit can just as easy change his about the marriage.


I’m amazed how bad this is. Tini manages to makes us feel that she both has to many pages and to few to tell this story. She skips important scenes and talks while giving us either to decompressed nothing scenes or too compressed important scenes. Its amazing.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch 2020
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2020, 05:15:28 PM »

I keep thinking about AoA Rogue with her son Charles. Or exile character Magnus, who ofc is the son of Rouge and Magneto. Both times Rogue is a very devoted mother and happy that she has a child. A character who wanted children.


Tini either doesn’t understand how bad she is or she doesn’t care? It’s like she is trying to provoke us with how she jumps from bad interaction to another.


Pregnancy is a question for the woman if she wants to or not. Her body, her choice. At least that’s my stance. Either way the reason to stay is equally Gambits. There where talks about how they wanted a family. If she changes her mind then Gambit can just as easy change his about the marriage.


I’m amazed how bad this is. Tini manages to makes us feel that she both has to many pages and to few to tell this story. She skips important scenes and talks while giving us either to decompressed nothing scenes or too compressed important scenes. Its amazing.


You forgot Becca and Oliver from The End/ GeneXt


And 100% you can't force anyone to have a child. But you also can't just change your mind due to a bad dream without a WTF fueled discussion to follow it. That's a huge blindside. Not just to Gambit but the fans that understand this character.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony