Author Topic: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's  (Read 1304 times)

Offline malachi

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Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« on: January 30, 2020, 05:25:31 PM »
I actually opened up my marvel unlimited app yesterday and did my first reading of Carey's non legacy issues. Then I went through Messiah Complex and through his Xavier legacy issues. Much of it read better then I remembered it too. His X-men issues where very well executed. Bachello's art is a soft spot since Gen X for me. Damn that man can do interesting panel layouts and backgrounds.
Gambit in Messiah Complex was a very good. Better then I rememberd.
The fact that Carey used him so much in his Xavier issues and also that he didn't use any other character I think was severly underestimated for me. It's stands to reason Carey actually enjoyed Gambit quite a bit. Up to Rogue leaving Australia it was set up for a comeback of Romy. Then Carey, by own admission, wanted to suprise us and and went with Rogneto. Witch I am skeptical towards rereading. Is it as bad as I remember? or was it so bad because Gambit was underused and we thought this was the new future status Quo?

Overall the care, heart and pacing Carey employed is top notch. Almost to good for comics it felt. Like a luxury that couldn't last. Witch brings me back into the present. Comparing Gambit in those issues to Tini's it's nto only a matter of how well the author gets the character. Or even the dialouge. Its that Carey understood witch moments where needed and witch moments perhaps was less essential for the plot but more so for us readers. All his characters had their moments in the battles. Played a part in the story. To a degree basics. But someone who masters the basics are often a sign of someone great. Tini really pales here and I appreciate Carey's Gambit even more so comparing it to hers. In the end Carey's biggest crime was that his Gambit was to centered on Rogue, witch made him passive, and becasue we knew the man could probalby write on of the best Gambits through publication. Whitch instead Gambit sort of got lost in the shuffle.

Offline thjan

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 06:01:25 PM »
I actually opened up my marvel unlimited app yesterday and did my first reading of Carey's non legacy issues. Then I went through Messiah Complex and through his Xavier legacy issues. Much of it read better then I remembered it too. His X-men issues where very well executed. Bachello's art is a soft spot since Gen X for me. Damn that man can do interesting panel layouts and backgrounds.
Gambit in Messiah Complex was a very good. Better then I rememberd.
The fact that Carey used him so much in his Xavier issues and also that he didn't use any other character I think was severly underestimated for me. It's stands to reason Carey actually enjoyed Gambit quite a bit. Up to Rogue leaving Australia it was set up for a comeback of Romy. Then Carey, by own admission, wanted to suprise us and and went with Rogneto. Witch I am skeptical towards rereading. Is it as bad as I remember? or was it so bad because Gambit was underused and we thought this was the new future status Quo?

Overall the care, heart and pacing Carey employed is top notch. Almost to good for comics it felt. Like a luxury that couldn't last. Witch brings me back into the present. Comparing Gambit in those issues to Tini's it's nto only a matter of how well the author gets the character. Or even the dialouge. Its that Carey understood witch moments where needed and witch moments perhaps was less essential for the plot but more so for us readers. All his characters had their moments in the battles. Played a part in the story. To a degree basics. But someone who masters the basics are often a sign of someone great. Tini really pales here and I appreciate Carey's Gambit even more so comparing it to hers. In the end Carey's biggest crime was that his Gambit was to centered on Rogue, witch made him passive, and becasue we knew the man could probalby write on of the best Gambits through publication. Whitch instead Gambit sort of got lost in the shuffle.


Yep, I feel like a lot of Gambit fans are too hard on Carey.  You won't find anyone that hates the Rogneto mess in his run more than me(and really that actually reflected more poorly on Rogue's character, while Gambit came off as the mature one), but for the most part I enjoyed his run and his Gambit.  And like you said he pretty consistently used Gambit and returned him from the Milligan induced limbo state(while fixing him at the same time), so he obviously has some fondness for the character.


And yeah, the Rogneto aspects are pretty rough reading in those later X-Men Legacy issues, but the overall stories are still enjoyable imo.  I would think knowing how things turned out in the long run regarding Rogneto and Gambit and Rogue(Asmus Gambit, Thompson Rogue and Gambit), would make the read more enjoyable as well.


Offline thjan

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 06:26:34 PM »
lol, I think it's a really good thing that Gambit's in 2 books, if one stinks, then there's another avenue.
Will he play a significant role in this new book? Maybe not...but if he's written respectfully, that's all I ask for at this point.


Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at at this point.  I just want Gambit written decently somewhere.  I hate legacy heroes that take on an original hero's name or powers, but I am still giving this a shot for Gambit.  And hey, at least it looks like someone respects him in the comic.  That will be a nice change of pace from Howard's Excalibur where almost everyone dumps on him(I really can't recall anything like it).


The only thing I'm not looking forward to is Gambit's powers suddenly being more effective for this new Gambit girl than they have been for Gambit anywhere outside his solo and co-series appearances for years.   Also sorry for the double post, I meant to respond to this too above.

Offline andresa

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2020, 07:18:38 PM »
I haven't read Carey's run thoroughly in a long time but from what I remember Gambit was well written during Messiah Complex. It was a very delicate time coming back from the Death mess but Gambit came off two-dimensional and in character. Loved when he attacked Cannonball so the latter could escape otherwise he would've been killed.

When it got to Xavier's Legacy, it went downhill fast. Gambit was dumb and useless. How many times did Xavier have to tell him that it wasn't really Rogue after Gambit had gone running to save her?

And then there was Rogneto (I always throw up in my mouth a little at the mere mention of it). That pathetic forced self-insert mediocrity.

Something that irked me back then was how well Carey described Gambit in interviews. It was clear he understood the character and what made him tick. Unfortunately his knowledge never seemed to really translate into the books much less in the later issues. He probably didn't care enough, after all, it was all about Rogue. Ironically his lack of interest in Gambit backfired when Gambit came on top and Rogue came off careless and naive.

Putting all that into perspective, Tini Howard is so incompetent that Gambit in Excalibur is more unrecognizable than under Carey's pen.

I'm not expecting anything from Children of the Atom, to be honest but if it turns out well for Gambit I'll pick it up. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 07:20:51 PM by andresa »

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 09:13:52 PM »
Tempted to make a new thread for comparing writers instead of using this one, that tells the rest where to find Gambit. Let me know what you think. I can if you want, if not. It's okay as long as all of you are okay with the topics. :)

I have a couple of thoughts but I'll stick to Carey for now, touch upon Liu and I can't deal with Howard. My suspicions for why she is not good with Gambit can't be substantiated so, I'm going to leave it alone. But .... I think there is some influence on her part that effects Gambit.


That said: Here we go.


For myself - the most disappointing thing about Carey was the fact, he did know Gambit. He understood the character, his interviews about the character showcased his knowledge and understanding. I think instead of holding the character captive (not allowing others to write Gambit), it would have benefited both the writer and character from exposure in other books. Carey's use would haven't seem so stiffing if there was another outlet for fans.


I do think Carey wrote alright stories but I'm not a fan of Rogue, so to have her be the focus was an issue. He did build her up, he did move her forward in maturity and powers and he tried to endear her and for some he was successful.



Rogneto never bothered me outside of how Rogue took Gambit's heart felt words as her reasoning for having sex with Magneto. That was a pretty bad characterization. I'm certain Carey didn't expect the reaction it got. Not going to touch on the ageism stuff with Rogneto.



I do applaud Carey for sticking to his story ideas and not being pushed or bullied by fans to change his plans. He stuck by his stories and defended them. He was also successful with the Legacy book for several years. I say he can write, even if I didn't enjoy the focus.


Gambit still had agency, a personality and he was his own character under Carey, even if I wasn't happy with the story ideas or focus. Carey didn't take those things from Gambit.



Once Liu got permission to use Gambit, while he was in Carey's book. Liu did do a better job with the character and it gave the Gambit fan a place to at least get some Gambit story elements that were not all focused on Rogue.


 

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 09:21:18 PM »
I have opinions on pretty much every  Gambit writer. So fel free to make a thread  :)

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 10:25:27 AM »
Replies on Carey: I think one could divide his run into three Gambit eras.
First - Marauders: Witch is great. Gambit is sneaky, doublecrosses and actually get things done.
Second - Xavier: A more relaxed Gambit who has his own misstakes and acomplishment. He is a bit ineffiecent in fights but also charges Shaw(whitch is Remy's idea, pluspoints there).
Third - Rogue: More passive and revolving around Rogue. A mature and okay Gambit. The biggest problem would be that mature and passive doesn't lead to much panels and not many great scenes when he actually gets panels. Pluspoints for not doing anything overly stupid and essentially being in character. The biggest problem perhaps is that all the agency and power in this relationship was given to Rogue. Where it pretty much has stayed since then. With the exception of Asmus.

New Writer Marjorie Liu:

First off I will say I love this woman. As a writer she is sublime in finding new angles in Gambit and essentially she saves Remy after Carey saved him from Death. Liu saved him from revolving around Rogue. She did so by introducing a new girl, X-23. But Remy's and Lauras relationship just adds layers to them both. Perhaps even more to Remy. It takes us back to his introduction where he helped Storm. The man can't say no when a girl is in trouble.

Thanks to Liu's patient and methodical work the two grew closer and for me the peak is the Paris arc. Remy interacing with Logan and Jubilee is just great. Logan is relaxed and on equall footing with Remy. It reminds us that when the X-men is written correctly Logan is perhaps one of Remy's best friends. The two understand each other and shouldn't blame each other(witch a inferior writer would use for cheap drama). Remy's playful interaction with an delightful impish Jubilee is also fun. She jokes with him in a way that shows warmth and he repsonds like an old friend or even big brother.

I will reread her astonishing run soon. Where Liu gave us the kittens! Thank you for that!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 10:28:29 AM by malachi »

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 10:36:25 AM »
Whew. Okay, my thoughts on Carey are this…he seems not so bad by comparison of a lot of what we got right before, and directly after. I don’t mean to take issue with what you wrote, but, I have to weigh in with a different position.

Messiah Complex. Yes, Gambit has a big role…and it’s not necessarily bad…but, is it REALLY that good, either? Lets re-examine a lot of Gambit’s “feats” during it, and subsequent run, and we’ll se his accomplishments aren’t that great, and the good ones mitigated in some way. Lets begin. Gambit shows back up in X-Men 200, when he and Sunfire ambush Cable. Now, Gambit returns in heroic form…gets the drop on Cable, having sought him out, gets a (beautiful) whole page splash, and comes across as cool. He attacks Cable, after tipping him off, and Cable launches a self destruct and they escape. But, at the same time, while Gambit and Sunfire get the better of Cable, it’s 2 v 1…not 1 v 1. Also, Cable “caught” Gambit’s cards…it was a sneak attack by Sunfire that hurt Cable (before Gambits cards). So, yeah, Gambit both “won” the encounter, came off as sneaky, and tipped Cable off….he still only won with Sunfire’s help, via a sneak attack, Sunfire did the most damage, and Cable seemed none too threatened by Remy.  Gambit then joins the rest of the marauders, and while he “saves Sam” and destroys Destiny’s Diaries, he’d gotten punched when Cannonball threw (the tornado guy, I forget his name…whiplash?) at Gambit.

Now, the scene where he reminisces his relationship with Rogue, before talking to Mystique are good…as, arguably, is his threatening Sinister (though Sinister dismisses him) are good. But, when the X-Men confront Sinister and the Marauders and Acolytes later, Gambit does not participate in the fight. When Wolverine confronts him, he kicks Gambit’s ass in the most one sided fight they ever had. Now, in Carey’s notes, it was supposed to be a stalemate where Gambit told Logan Cable had the baby but they were NOT living with Rogue…so, he had good intentions, but instead, Gambit got punked.

Next we see Remy, he and the Marauders save Destiny by ambushing Bishop after he bushwhacked Cable. Now, while Gambit lead the team, and delivered the final blow to take Bishop down/out, it was still 6 v 1. Again, mitigating a Gambit “cool” moment. When the climactic fight is happening, he doesn’t participate, he sits by Rogue’s side playing solitaire. When Mystique tried bring Rogue (and thus killing the baby),Gambit, again in Carey’s notes, was to “take Mystique out”. In panel? He gets shoved by her. Again, rather than Gambit take out an opponent (Mystique, Cable, Bishop) he, at best, stalemates. An of course, while he is heavily featured post MC with Xavier, which is cool, he got his ass kicked by a group of ninja’s….he had to essentially power Shaw to do something he couldn’t…and of course, he cucked out to Rogneto. I’m sorry, but, while Carey may have liked Gambit as a character, and featured him a lot, I don’t see a lot of accomplishments or feats of note. At best, he comes across as capable, but, weak.
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Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 11:53:14 AM »
Whew. Okay, my thoughts on Carey are this…he seems not so bad by comparison of a lot of what we got right before, and directly after. I don’t mean to take issue with what you wrote, but, I have to weigh in with a different position.

Messiah Complex. Yes, Gambit has a big role…and it’s not necessarily bad…but, is it REALLY that good, either? Lets re-examine a lot of Gambit’s “feats” during it, and subsequent run, and we’ll se his accomplishments aren’t that great, and the good ones mitigated in some way. Lets begin. Gambit shows back up in X-Men 200, when he and Sunfire ambush Cable. Now, Gambit returns in heroic form…gets the drop on Cable, having sought him out, gets a (beautiful) whole page splash, and comes across as cool. He attacks Cable, after tipping him off, and Cable launches a self destruct and they escape. But, at the same time, while Gambit and Sunfire get the better of Cable, it’s 2 v 1…not 1 v 1. Also, Cable “caught” Gambit’s cards…it was a sneak attack by Sunfire that hurt Cable (before Gambits cards). So, yeah, Gambit both “won” the encounter, came off as sneaky, and tipped Cable off….he still only won with Sunfire’s help, via a sneak attack, Sunfire did the most damage, and Cable seemed none too threatened by Remy.  Gambit then joins the rest of the marauders, and while he “saves Sam” and destroys Destiny’s Diaries, he’d gotten punched when Cannonball threw (the tornado guy, I forget his name…whiplash?) at Gambit.

Now, the scene where he reminisces his relationship with Rogue, before talking to Mystique are good…as, arguably, is his threatening Sinister (though Sinister dismisses him) are good. But, when the X-Men confront Sinister and the Marauders and Acolytes later, Gambit does not participate in the fight. When Wolverine confronts him, he kicks Gambit’s ass in the most one sided fight they ever had. Now, in Carey’s notes, it was supposed to be a stalemate where Gambit told Logan Cable had the baby but they were NOT living with Rogue…so, he had good intentions, but instead, Gambit got punked.

Next we see Remy, he and the Marauders save Destiny by ambushing Bishop after he bushwhacked Cable. Now, while Gambit lead the team, and delivered the final blow to take Bishop down/out, it was still 6 v 1. Again, mitigating a Gambit “cool” moment. When the climactic fight is happening, he doesn’t participate, he sits by Rogue’s side playing solitaire. When Mystique tried bring Rogue (and thus killing the baby),Gambit, again in Carey’s notes, was to “take Mystique out”. In panel? He gets shoved by her. Again, rather than Gambit take out an opponent (Mystique, Cable, Bishop) he, at best, stalemates. An of course, while he is heavily featured post MC with Xavier, which is cool, he got his ass kicked by a group of ninja’s….he had to essentially power Shaw to do something he couldn’t…and of course, he cucked out to Rogneto. I’m sorry, but, while Carey may have liked Gambit as a character, and featured him a lot, I don’t see a lot of accomplishments or feats of note. At best, he comes across as capable, but, weak.

You should feel free to take issue with what I wrote. It's after all my subjective take on it. On that day and in that hour  ;)

But because I think stuff like this is fun I will happily respond. Overall I agree with you. It's all about the lenses I'm viewing it through. In this case it comes from the background of the horrible Tini-version we got going. Added too that I found a facebook post Carey wrote where he at least aknowledged he should have tackled the trial of Gambit. Overall I liked his ability to aknowledge the misstakes he made. Mostly because I'm used to us fans not getting that. Somethign I dispise in current politics around the globe. Just admit when you made a misstake and try to do better next time.

The cable moment for me is his MC high point. He throws the cards witch Cable intercept. Says something to let us know the cards where a diversion for Sunfire that attacks from above. When Cable dispatches Sunfire we realise that Gambit time charged the cards and they are waiting right bellow where Cable lands. Hurting him enough to send him running. Remy and Sunfire follows but Gambit just wants him to escape now since he allready has gotten the phrase " a minute before dawn" from Gambit and started his computer search on it. It seems like Sunfire isn't a part of Gambits plan so he also has to manage that aspect.

On the rest of MC his altercation with Logan was bad. Mostly since it seemed Gambit just wanted Logan to leave him alone. In the end It's Logan for me who comes out looking bad, well more bad at least, since he didn't listen to Gambit.

Cannonball is a good moment witch I'm a bit perplexed with since I first thought that destroying the journals where his main objective(to keep Rogue alive) and it seems he's more interested in saving Cannonball. Maybe it's a two for teh price of one. With a bit of luck involved. It's the luck part I'm not to fond of then.

The rest of MC he sits out witch I can understand. He has no desire to fight teh X-men or help Sinister. He wants to save Rogue and his selfhatred is very high here. Maybe he just wants her to forgive him. I think this is the only time his revolving around Rogue-personality works since it's at this depserate time and his selfworth is so low.
My take of his interaction with Mystique was that she held the cards and when her plan seemingly failed he stayed to make sure and she broke down. Showing us the difference between the two. I should find the issues you have with notes in them. Didn't know about that.

Xavier is a mixed bag. I'm probably just too happy that he was included to be as critical as I should be. I cringed at the assasin fight(guild of assasins?). In general Shaw might work well as a worst kind of opponent for Remy. Still It started this whole "Gambit can't touch them and looks more like a nusience then a X-man". Some good Xavier-Remy interactions though. Not the best but mediocre and it's an interesting mix. The australia arc was just bad except for the last scene and kiss with Rogue.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 12:01:04 PM by malachi »

Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 03:46:24 PM »
Gambit's stories revolving around Rogue, this trend started with Mike Carey (then Gage pushed the volume up to 11)
I was always under the impression that Carey was lukewarm with Gambit, in interviews Rogue was the dominant topic of conversation, and then later Magneto. It reflected on print.
His handling of Gambit was fine at the start, though I thought his character was watered down, lost his charm, lacked charisma, quite dull in parts, not really the ideal Gambit I wanted to read...and then after the "Harbour Speech", he lost his purpose (and even a little pathetic in parts). He should've given the character to Gillen who stated that he wanted to use him in Uncanny. I'll give Carey a tick for having Gambit bond with Xavier. AoX and Blinded by the Light were reasonable showings. But there's nothing Gambit did that really pops in his entire run, and he was in his cast for quite a few years come to think of it.

As a writer overall, he was great with 'Adjectiveless X-Men' #188-207, 'Messiah Complex' is one of my favourite X-Men crossovers 'Blinded by the Light' and 'Supernovas' were the standouts. I started to lose interest in the Xavier arc in Legacy. The only thing I liked in Legacy was the first few chapters of AoX, but thought its ending fell flat.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 05:09:14 PM by Sparta »

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 04:51:51 PM »
You should feel free to take issue with what I wrote. It's after all my subjective take on it. On that day and in that hour  ;)

But because I think stuff like this is fun I will happily respond. Overall I agree with you. It's all about the lenses I'm viewing it through. In this case it comes from the background of the horrible Tini-version we got going. Added too that I found a facebook post Carey wrote where he at least aknowledged he should have tackled the trial of Gambit. Overall I liked his ability to aknowledge the misstakes he made. Mostly because I'm used to us fans not getting that. Somethign I dispise in current politics around the globe. Just admit when you made a misstake and try to do better next time.

The cable moment for me is his MC high point. He throws the cards witch Cable intercept. Says something to let us know the cards where a diversion for Sunfire that attacks from above. When Cable dispatches Sunfire we realise that Gambit time charged the cards and they are waiting right bellow where Cable lands. Hurting him enough to send him running. Remy and Sunfire follows but Gambit just wants him to escape now since he allready has gotten the phrase " a minute before dawn" from Gambit and started his computer search on it. It seems like Sunfire isn't a part of Gambits plan so he also has to manage that aspect.

On the rest of MC his altercation with Logan was bad. Mostly since it seemed Gambit just wanted Logan to leave him alone. In the end It's Logan for me who comes out looking bad, well more bad at least, since he didn't listen to Gambit.

Cannonball is a good moment witch I'm a bit perplexed with since I first thought that destroying the journals where his main objective(to keep Rogue alive) and it seems he's more interested in saving Cannonball. Maybe it's a two for teh price of one. With a bit of luck involved. It's the luck part I'm not to fond of then.

The rest of MC he sits out witch I can understand. He has no desire to fight teh X-men or help Sinister. He wants to save Rogue and his selfhatred is very high here. Maybe he just wants her to forgive him. I think this is the only time his revolving around Rogue-personality works since it's at this depserate time and his selfworth is so low.
My take of his interaction with Mystique was that she held the cards and when her plan seemingly failed he stayed to make sure and she broke down. Showing us the difference between the two. I should find the issues you have with notes in them. Didn't know about that.

Xavier is a mixed bag. I'm probably just too happy that he was included to be as critical as I should be. I cringed at the assasin fight(guild of assasins?). In general Shaw might work well as a worst kind of opponent for Remy. Still It started this whole "Gambit can't touch them and looks more like a nusience then a X-man". Some good Xavier-Remy interactions though. Not the best but mediocre and it's an interesting mix. The australia arc was just bad except for the last scene and kiss with Rogue.


Thanks!


I mean, I see your points, and agree. Logan trying to MURDER Gambit looks really, really bad. And yeah, gambit was doing a lot in his Cable encounter...timing was everything, and Sunfire wasn't in on it. So, Gambit actually saved Cable. As for the notes by Carey, I have the Messiah Complex hardcover TPB. It IS my favorite X-story post 1999 to be fair (counting Blinded by the Light as part of it),a nd I DO enjoy it...and it is the closest to "Gambit" from his prime we've seen outside of Liu imo. I just hate that his accomplishments are so....small. The guy who once soloed the Skull Starjammers, took out Gladiator, the Phalanx, THOR, gets his ass kicked by thugs.
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Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2020, 06:05:01 PM »

Thanks!


I mean, I see your points, and agree. Logan trying to MURDER Gambit looks really, really bad. And yeah, gambit was doing a lot in his Cable encounter...timing was everything, and Sunfire wasn't in on it. So, Gambit actually saved Cable. As for the notes by Carey, I have the Messiah Complex hardcover TPB. It IS my favorite X-story post 1999 to be fair (counting Blinded by the Light as part of it),a nd I DO enjoy it...and it is the closest to "Gambit" from his prime we've seen outside of Liu imo. I just hate that his accomplishments are so....small. The guy who once soloed the Skull Starjammers, took out Gladiator, the Phalanx, THOR, gets his ass kicked by thugs.

Yeah you get sad thinking how far he has fallen with his feats. I grew up reading contest of champions number 2 and that certainly colored my internal ratings of the characters. Gambit was capable of so much more then. His powers are so creative and crafty. Instead we often get the cards. Who sometimes just go poof like a firecracker. It's a big pet peeve for me. I want to see things explode. One of the reasons I liked Carey's Gambit in MC. He felt dangerous, not only in motivaiton but with his powers. When he throws the doll it's just visually fun and dangerous. Like no other character.

Sparta: yes I had the same impression with him being lukewarm back when it was published. Carey is a bit contradictive on that subject. On one side we have the view that he is blocking others form writing him like Gillen in uncanny. Or the fact that he wrote the Origin one-shot. Something i just remember as bland. Or how little he featured in Legacy the second half. Or his half and half run in Xavier.
On the other side we have the fact that he brought Gambit back from Milligans dead end. If he wanted to focus on Rogue and then later on Magneto he would have made it easier just not to write Gambit at all. Instead he dove right into the Milligan-mess and handled it well. Made gambit into a useable character again. The fact that he used Gambit in Xaviers quest. What he did with him in Age of X.

It's odd. My personal belief is that none or close to none of this was editorially mandated. That without Carey we probably be in a much worse mess then we are. Instead we got some bad stuff that indirectly happened to Gambit and some good stuff he actually did. I think Careys heart was in teh right place but his taste led him astray.

Offline Sparta

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2020, 08:24:34 AM »

Sparta: yes I had the same impression with him being lukewarm back when it was published. Carey is a bit contradictive on that subject. On one side we have the view that he is blocking others form writing him like Gillen in uncanny. Or the fact that he wrote the Origin one-shot. Something i just remember as bland. Or how little he featured in Legacy the second half. Or his half and half run in Xavier.
On the other side we have the fact that he brought Gambit back from Milligans dead end. If he wanted to focus on Rogue and then later on Magneto he would have made it easier just not to write Gambit at all. Instead he dove right into the Milligan-mess and handled it well. Made gambit into a useable character again. The fact that he used Gambit in Xaviers quest. What he did with him in Age of X.

It's odd. My personal belief is that none or close to none of this was editorially mandated. That without Carey we probably be in a much worse mess then we are. Instead we got some bad stuff that indirectly happened to Gambit and some good stuff he actually did. I think Careys heart was in teh right place but his taste led him astray.


Any writer would've eventually restored Gambit from the Death-Persona, that was inevitable. He did some okay things with him, but nothing memorable really...it was very much Rogue's book.

Offline malachi

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2020, 07:10:24 AM »

Any writer would've eventually restored Gambit from the Death-Persona, that was inevitable. He did some okay things with him, but nothing memorable really...it was very much Rogue's book.

Yes but I was expecting some more Milligan level crap before Gambit got restored. Also a weaker restoration arc. I'm colored by some of the horrible things DC has done over the years. Especially with my favorite Cassandra Cain. So my expectations was rather weak in that department.

Top 3 favorite characters:
1 Gambit
2 Cassandra Cain
3 Quasar

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit writers pros, woes and oh no's
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 11:48:40 AM »


I do applaud Carey for sticking to his story ideas and not being pushed or bullied by fans to change his plans. He stuck by his stories and defended them. He was also successful with the Legacy book for several years. I say he can write, even if I didn't enjoy the focus.


My ONLY disagreement is your use of the term "bullied". I've been hearing that a lot in comics and Hollywood as well. I'm not talking about actors. This doesnt apply. People can 100% bully them. But if your a writer of books or movies, you cant be "bullied" into anything. Your job as a writer for a for-profit company is to sell product. If what you're doing isnt resonating with your customers, it's not really appropriate to "stick" to anything. You cannot be an immovable object when you're trying to endear your product to potential customers. That's how business dies - unless they hold some sort of monopoly or exclusivity and customers just have to deal with it.

That's kind of how we relate to X-Men and Gambit. We too often just have to "deal with it" because there's no where else to go. Carey did stick to his guns, but almost as soon as he left, his romantic thread was erased. And that's because it wasn't resonating. If it was, believe me, Marvel would have ridden that gravy train until wheels fell off. It's why its important to speak with your dollars. If your not feeling something, you're not helping by supporting the product and hoping it gets better. Voice your opinion as frequently as you want so that it is heard, and dont give them your money. Don't let them write their own narrative like PAD was able to do. Remember how he blamed the failure of ANXF on Gambit? Shouldnt work.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony