Topic: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?

[wantutosigh]

If you want character A to beat character B in a book, there are ways to go about it without one of the characters looking bad. For instance, when Gambit beat Wolverine in the danger room shortly after Gambit's introduction, it was made pretty clear that Gambit had the edge because Wolverine was injured and distracted in the fight. You pump Gambit up and Wolverine saves face due to the circumstance. That's how you do it. You don't just bury one character in favor of another because that's the character you enjoy as a writer. You have to think of in universe rules and not destroying another characters credibility/reputation. It's somewhat similar to the rules of storytelling in pro wrestling.

[Toadman005]

This. It's exactly like pro-wrestling. You can use an established character to get a new guy over, but book it in a way to keep them saving face, looking strong. I feel Gambit has been used to do that (being beaten by a new character to get them over) in the last 20 years without having him keep face, resulting in him looking weak.

[Toadman005]

Mystique tricked Remy when she used Rogue`s look. With one punch she broke Gambit`s jaw and told that he has a glass jaw. Later Fantomex was waiting while Gambit will fix his jaw so they can have round 2 of their fight. After that we saw 2 panels where Fanto was kicking Remy and Gambit was doing nothing kind to protect himself.


Garbage.

And that's after Gambit looked weak in his fight against Fantomex. Sure, he won...off panel...but he got his nose broken, got physically beaten, disrespected and insulted, and even "saved" by Fantomex. Such bulls***.

[purplevit]

Xmen 16 and 17 variants. Art by Kael Ngu

[killphil]

Well, besides the fact that Gambit's faster than her, a better fighter, and larger/stronger and in theory, more durable, as well as slightly armored, to say nothing of his powers, it was sad that an angered/enraged Gambit was, at best, struggling with her.

But is he, though? Mystique is an extremely formidable foe. She is definitely stronger than Gambit. I remember in an old issue of Uncanny, think it was a few issues after Rogue joins the X-Men, Mystique kicks Wolverine in the neck so hard, the narration says if not for his healing factor and adamantium bones, that kick would have broken the neck and instantly killed an ordinary man. She is definitely more durable. Her shape shifting  gives her body more malleability and works much like a healing factor, hence her being so old and still in prime shape. She has more training and experience than Gambit due to her age.

I'd say Gambit has the edge on her in speed and agility and perhaps raw fighting ability, but I wouldn't say it's by a huge margin. They are pretty evenly matched IMO.

[DonPriceTag]

Mystique's fighting ability, aside from this kick is theoretical. Gambit has beaten Wolverine and Sabertooth. He's fought Spiderman, Blade and Daredevil to stand stills. Two of which have super strength and dexterity along with super speed and agility. Heck, he's thwarted Gladiator one on one. The only other X-Men to do that was Cannonball. Mystique is far from a pushover, but I don't see how her resume stacks up against Gambit. Outside of theory. Nothing I've said is conjecture or opinion. All of this has occurred on panel. So, I don't want any of that "we're bias" -talk. We are.. but all this is canon.

[killphil]

Mystique's fighting ability, aside from this kick is theoretical. Gambit has beaten Wolverine and Sabertooth. He's fought Spiderman, Blade and Daredevil to stand stills. Two of which have super strength and dexterity along with super speed and agility. Heck, he's thwarted Gladiator one on one. The only other X-Men to do that was Cannonball. Mystique is far from a pushover, but I don't see how her resume stacks up against Gambit. Outside of theory. Nothing I've said is conjecture or opinion. All of this has occurred on panel. So, I don't want any of that "we're bias" -talk. We are.. but all this is canon.

Why are you so aggressive? You come off that way, at least.
 I have many issues where Mystique shows extremely superior fighting skills. She has fought Wolverine brutally before. Ive seen her square off and beat Psylocke among many others. There is nothing theoretical about her abilities. She has decades of appearances and feats to pull from. Im not saying she's better, but she isn't that outclassed by Gambit by any means.

[Icefanatic]

This. It's exactly like pro-wrestling. You can use an established character to get a new guy over, but book it in a way to keep them saving face, looking strong. I feel Gambit has been used to do that (being beaten by a new character to get them over) in the last 20 years without having him keep face, resulting in him looking weak.

That's a big problem with modern comics in general, not enough care in protecting and preserving characters. The idea seems to be you can crap on characters like Superman or Batman and they are so big with such longevity that it doesn't hurt them and that's just not true. For strongly established characters it damages them, for characters that don't have that it practically destroys them. Marvel and DC do not seem to realize that many of their characters are largely coasting on the fumes of popularity from stories told decades ago, and much of what they currently do only serves to detract from and diminish that.

[NicoPony]

It makes me so happy to see Gambit happy. Which makes the second panel so aggravating. I am sick to death of Mystique dicking him around! Find a new plot, for cripes sake. She used to be one of my fav characters and now I just can’t stand her. One note, Mystique who seems to only be motivated by her f***ed up co-dependent relationship with Rogue and Destiny. Too bad she can’t morph a new personality.

Why are you so aggressive? You come off that way, at least.

Nothing can’t be remedied with more emojis and a re-reading of past posts in Dr. Farnsworth’s voice. Frankly. It’s a treat to see posts getting ...uh, posted!

Xmen 16 and 17 variants. Art by Kael Ngu

[DonPriceTag]

Why are you so aggressive? You come off that way, at least.
 I have many issues where Mystique shows extremely superior fighting skills. She has fought Wolverine brutally before. Ive seen her square off and beat Psylocke among many others. There is nothing theoretical about her abilities. She has decades of appearances and feats to pull from. Im not saying she's better, but she isn't that outclassed by Gambit by any means.

This is a message board. Not sure how you measure "aggressive". I was mostly being tongue and cheek which is why at the end I admitted we are bias... I didn't put anything caps... Didn't think I had to type lol. Didn't know difference in opinion = aggressive. My apologies if that what you got, buy perhaps you should maybe, perhaps relax? There's no beef here.


Chill.


And I just gave you several examples and came back with some glancing encounters. I'm not debating if Mystique can fight. She can. She's just not in Gambits class in hand to hand one on one, which is why it annoys people when he's constantly caught off guard by her. Well, three times at least now. I suppose when it's happened so often it's canon. Which, again, is annoying when you compare their resumes. Essentially it comes down to writer preference.

[killphil]

This is a message board. Not sure how you measure "aggressive". I was mostly being tongue and cheek which is why at the end I admitted we are bias... I didn't put anything caps... Didn't think I had to type lol. Didn't know difference in opinion = aggressive. My apologies if that what you got, buy perhaps you should maybe, perhaps relax? There's no beef here.


Chill.


And I just gave you several examples and came back with some glancing encounters. I'm not debating if Mystique can fight. She can. She's just not in Gambits class in hand to hand one on one, which is why it annoys people when he's constantly caught off guard by her. Well, three times at least now. I suppose when it's happened so often it's canon. Which, again, is annoying when you compare their resumes. Essentially it comes down to writer preference.

I'm totally relaxed, bud. Was just an observation from the statement I dont wanna hear anything about...which read angry to me. It's like you said, can't measure tone on a message board, so it's quite easy to take anything read as literal unless it's denoted otherwise. But I'm assuming you are taking my statements the same way lol.

[andresa]

Xmen 16 and 17 variants. Art by Kael Ngu

Thought the left image was cute but the other one totally ruined it for me.

[andresa]

Another variant:



https://64.media.tumblr.com/48969bed64cf2b816be2e5ba3a818922/126bae9d1132f2e6-18/s540x810/af1b3b54d8b903d646b23dc70548e0c78e375200.jpg

[andresa]

If you want character A to beat character B in a book, there are ways to go about it without one of the characters looking bad. For instance, when Gambit beat Wolverine in the danger room shortly after Gambit's introduction, it was made pretty clear that Gambit had the edge because Wolverine was injured and distracted in the fight. You pump Gambit up and Wolverine saves face due to the circumstance. That's how you do it. You don't just bury one character in favor of another because that's the character you enjoy as a writer. You have to think of in universe rules and not destroying another characters credibility/reputation. It's somewhat similar to the rules of storytelling in pro wrestling.

That's too much to ask from current "talents" at Marvel.

[DonPriceTag]

Xmen 16 and 17 variants. Art by Kael Ngu

Love these btw. Really do. The subtle reaction in the 2nd is awesome.