Author Topic: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?  (Read 26149 times)

NicoPony

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2020, 11:04:00 AM »

Love these btw. Really do. The subtle reaction in the 2nd is awesome.


I’d like to think he’s doing a spit take.


Mystique wants his baby.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2020, 08:48:35 PM »
Haha... That's wrong on so many many levels.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline purplevit

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #122 on: December 31, 2020, 09:39:28 PM »

Love these btw. Really do. The subtle reaction in the 2nd is awesome.


I find it funny too:)

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #123 on: January 03, 2021, 04:07:51 PM »
I find the idea of Mystique secretly having the hots for Gambit as intriguing as the idea of Rogue's affection for him being due to Carol's influences on her mind. I've brought it up before, but before absorbing Carol, Rogue had no intention of being a hero.


Then all of sudden she turns a new leaf. In the process strikes up a relationship with Gambit. That could have been enough and fair, but almost as soon as Rogue's mind is wiped clean she takes off and despite being to control her powers to a measure - rejects Gambit.


This ultimately turned into her entertaining Magneto's advances which led to the... weird hook up and weirder relationship even after knowing his role in the horrible situation that was Gambits Trial. We all know it was result of a retcon, but if it's canon, instead of ignoring the erratic behavior, they should have explored it.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #124 on: January 04, 2021, 09:20:22 AM »
Rogue's affection for him being due to Carol's influences on her mind.

Don't like this conjecture. Back when Rogue was a villain (which was a short run) she was also very young, a teenager, and under the influence of Mystique and the others, she was a pawn. She didn’t just have a change of heart. She sought Xavier and the X-Men for help because she was desperate. After attacking Carol Denvers she was even more out of control than before and being tormented by Denvers. She was being punished and may have realized the gravity of her actions, and feeling guilty. With the X-Men she might've realized that their way was the right way.

I know it’s not exactly a strong argument but the whole Rogueneto fiasco can be explained through awful writing and pathetic self-inserting. The “you were experienced” line in their solo isn’t exactly convincing but better than “she didn’t really like him on her own”.

Saying Rogue wasn’t really in love with Gambit turns their romance into an irrelevant fraud, and this goes against evidence. Despite all the crappy writing we endure Gambit and Rogue have been shown to be compatible before, and when Rogue had her mind clean, such as during X-Men X-treme and around the time of the wedding.

I honestly hate rationalizing bad writing, because it comes down to our doing our utmost to explain what's on paper, cause that's only what matters, while knowing the external reasons for some pretty ridiculous decisions.

Also, Gambit is everyone’s type. 

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #125 on: January 04, 2021, 11:51:11 AM »
Well, every (straight) woman's type anyway.
\"Say, do you hear that? It\'s the sound of the Reaper...\"

Offline Toadman005

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #126 on: January 04, 2021, 05:57:26 PM »

I’d like to think he’s doing a spit take.


Mystique wants his baby.


Messed up but, hilarious.
\"Say, do you hear that? It\'s the sound of the Reaper...\"

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #127 on: January 04, 2021, 06:00:16 PM »
Well, every (straight) woman's type anyway.


It was tongue in cheek. He is, though.

Offline anya

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2021, 11:09:54 AM »
KT could have done a more in depth explanation. Heck, it’s very common for people who had controlling and/or abusive parents to end up with an controlling/ abusive. L partner. Because it’s like ‘going home’ to them. Working through that could have been a better story, but even if she wanted to write something more in depth, would marvel have let her? Their past approach to terrible stories that they want to do a 180 on (*cough* IvX *cough* crazy bishop *cough*) has been a short, hand wavey excuse and move along like nothing happened. We got a bit more than that here but, honestly I didn’t really expect to get much more. Marvel doesn’t like to admit when they were wrong.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2021, 06:13:07 PM »
Don't like this conjecture. Back when Rogue was a villain (which was a short run) she was also very young, a teenager, and under the influence of Mystique and the others, she was a pawn. She didn’t just have a change of heart. She sought Xavier and the X-Men for help because she was desperate. After attacking Carol Denvers she was even more out of control than before and being tormented by Denvers. She was being punished and may have realized the gravity of her actions, and feeling guilty. With the X-Men she might've realized that their way was the right way.

I know it’s not exactly a strong argument but the whole Rogueneto fiasco can be explained through awful writing and pathetic self-inserting. The “you were experienced” line in their solo isn’t exactly convincing but better than “she didn’t really like him on her own”.

Saying Rogue wasn’t really in love with Gambit turns their romance into an irrelevant fraud, and this goes against evidence. Despite all the crappy writing we endure Gambit and Rogue have been shown to be compatible before, and when Rogue had her mind clean, such as during X-Men X-treme and around the time of the wedding.

I honestly hate rationalizing bad writing, because it comes down to our doing our utmost to explain what's on paper, cause that's only what matters, while knowing the external reasons for some pretty ridiculous decisions.

Also, Gambit is everyone’s type.


Not really "conjecture". It's not something I believe or push to head canon, like at all. Just thought it'd be an interesting story to explore that would subsequently explain the... Magneto-thing. Personally, I hate plot holes via bad writing and instead of acting like it didn't happen I appreciate when someone explores a concept that to make it work logically.


There's always going to be stories and runs we don't like - but that doesn't mean we can hand wave it... Well, yes we CAN. But that makes us no better than the hacks that choose to ignore a character's lore and history so they can behave in the way they believe they should for a specific treatment. It's exactly how Gambit went from the Rain Cajun to Racky.


Some creators got it stuck in their heads that Gambit from TAS and Gambit from the comics were the same and because they didn't like him in the series they pushed all these horrible tropes that may have worked in the semi-campy show but don't fit in the books which are a lot more ernest and dramatic.


I read the same books as you of course. There's no evidence of my pitch being true - but that Magneto thing is just as or more ridiculous to swallow. I think my idea makes more sense than how Rogue behaved towards Gambit throughout Carey's whole run!  ;D
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #130 on: January 18, 2021, 11:51:54 AM »
Don’t see it that way, I don’t think it explains Rogueneto and diminishes Gambit and Rogue’s relationship over the years. We all know that that and so many more “questionable decisions” happened due to bad writing and self-insert with no respect for continuity or previous characterization.

I also like when people try to fill in the gaps, I just don’t like this idea; it doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Rogue retaining Legacy’s memories, wanting to experience, being resentful after the whole Death fiasco or being afraid because she knew Gambit was her endgame are weak reasons for what happened but they make more sense than she only liked him because there was someone else in her head. I loathe the way Gambit has been written for the past fifteen years or so, with very few exceptions, and we know the behind the scenes reasons for his being mistreated. Let’s just agree to disagree on that.

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #131 on: January 18, 2021, 04:41:06 PM »
Oh... Ok... but I don't disagree with you. I think you believe I'm trying to sell you on my idea? I'm not, nor am I defending it. It's baseless. Basically as baseless as the "one-night" thing because of stuff that didn't happen quasi-alternate reality.  ;D
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline andresa

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #132 on: January 18, 2021, 08:15:29 PM »
You brought up an idea and I didn't like it, that's all  ;)

Offline purplevit

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #133 on: January 19, 2021, 08:08:11 AM »
All in!


Cebulski replied for my tweet that for Nicieza and Skroce reunion for Gambit they would just need to say Yes!


https://twitter.com/CBCebulski/status/1351513994020970499


Who have twitter please support and reply and like that you would love a new Gambit book and Nicieza/Skroce reunion :gambit:

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Why is Gambit in Excalibur, again?
« Reply #134 on: January 19, 2021, 10:58:18 AM »
That's odd... CB doesn't often give answers like that. Mean it's been brought up. Probably not exactly, but in some incarnation.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony