Topic: Gambit Watch

[deathsun]

Question: All I want is a book with Gambit in it.  Is there any hope for that?

Duggan: Yes.  Yes, there is.  Maybe even more than one.

He might be talking about Daredevil's apprentice and the blind Inhuman guy (which looks like AoA Gambit).

[remydat]

To be fair, they didn't specify which fans would be upset. Because we're the punching bags of fandom lately, we assumed it would be us, but hoped otherwise... Sadly, we were wrong. Well most of us. Apparently there's a small minority that got a kick out of it.

Yes I think they said it first and then after they said it, the Romy cover and Gambit's guest appearance were revealed.  Seemed pretty obvious who they were referring to although most thought it was going to be something to do with Romy.  Either way, I think people had enough forewarning to be cautious.

And I don't think anyone got a kick out of it but rather some of us aren't going to be overly upset when things act according to their nature.  You throw a piece a meat in front of a tiger, it's going to eat it.  You give marketing overly excited and hopeful Gambit fans, they are going to use them to try and sell more books. 

So the question is, are you going to keep throwing yourself in front of the Tiger and hope that it's not hungry or will you take a more cautious approach?   Because throwing yourself in front of the Tiger and basically saying look at me then being upset when it eats you isn't the most logical approach.

[jsremy]

IM HUNGRY! TIGER WANTS ROMY! HEHEHE

[Nekobaghira]

Yes I think they said it first and then after they said it, the Romy cover and Gambit's guest appearance were revealed.  Seemed pretty obvious who they were referring to although most thought it was going to be something to do with Romy.  Either way, I think people had enough forewarning to be cautious.

And I don't think anyone got a kick out of it but rather some of us aren't going to be overly upset when things act according to their nature.  You throw a piece a meat in front of a tiger, it's going to eat it.  You give marketing overly excited and hopeful Gambit fans, they are going to use them to try and sell more books.  

IA - there was plenty of forewarning, when its stated that fans will be peeved by the issue is usually tell tale sign that something will set folks off. My only concern was it would be G's death. The plus is, he's not dead.

The other plus - RSGambit did act like Gambit. For those who don't romy, his refusing a kiss while a tactic to not get caught was amusing.

IA that it wasn't really getting a kick out of it, but when you go into these things with low expectations, its easier to handle.

Marvel didn't care - were proud to peeved off people.

[purplevit]

He might be talking about Daredevil's apprentice and the blind Inhuman guy (which looks like AoA Gambit).

LOL) It is so funny because it is so sad.

[DonPriceTag]

If by "they" you mean Duggan, than ok. He was the only one in the equation that said fans might be upset (I think he was getting nervous by the amount of attention it got and wasn't looking forward to the backlash it might create). Otherwise, I don't see how that cover would serve as "warning" except to the extremely apprehensive... Or perceptive, I guess it depends on what end of the spectrum you're on. In a vacuum, the only foreboding piece of advertising during the whole campaign was the "friend or foe" thing that never came into play.

I don't think anyone questions the ability of the marketing department and their ability to do their jobs. But good business rarely equals, good ethics or good will towards customers, at least beneath the surface. Especially when we're talking about sales. Look at what the comic book companies did during the 90s. They almost marketed themselves to death.

Hey... people still think they are saving money on top of the line electronics on black Friday. Its common knowledge that most consumer electronics cost a fraction of what they sell for to actually make (shoes are even worse). It's a good business. But on black Friday, especially with TVs and low-end computers, those same companies stock shelves with watered down versions and put them on "sale". Doesn't make them the devil... Shady? Perhaps, but only if you forked over your money expecting an equal transaction. Like paying for something and expecting to get what was advertised. Silly of me and others, I know. But I had hopes

Not like I didn't have an idea, it spoiled vaguely the night before. But it was so well written up to that point I still got my hopes up.

[remydat]

Does it matter who warned you?  You were warned.  You chose to ignore that warning.  And you can't really claim ignorance as I recall people speculating about what the warning meant (e.g death, etc.) so not sure what more you want Marvel to do. 

There was nothing unethical here as in the world of movies, comics, books, consumers are routinely led to believe one thing only for it to be another.  That's a very well mined story idea and unless you are going to argue they should stop these types of stories across the board, you just think it's unethical because as a Gambit fan, you got burned. 

[purplevit]

It was Brevoort who told that X-Men fans would hate issue 5 but still continue to be interested and read this book.

Duggan only told that issue 5 is a major event that will reverberate in future.

[DonPriceTag]

Does it matter who warned you?  You were warned.  You chose to ignore that warning.  And you can't really claim ignorance as I recall people speculating about what the warning meant (e.g death, etc.) so not sure what more you want Marvel to do.  

Hmm... Incoming wall of words. Trying to be optimistic, he never said which fans would be upset. It's not like Gambit fans were the only ones reading the issue. It could have easily been Rogue, or Torch, which what is what I was hoping for, Gambit getting the better end of the deal, maybe fooling the team and making them look silly. And you do realize I said I went into it knowing, and stated I was talking in a vacuum? I didn't go into anything blind, but with high hopes. Sue me. I'm trying to talk with you man, not argue a point... Unless you work for Marvel's Marketing Department? But its not like this is some nonsensical topic, CBR who's been known to not be overly pro-Gambit chose to even bring it via an article and thread, not because it was a huge lead up twist, but because it left a lot of folk hanging.

You really zeroed in on the word "ethics", but yeah telling the consumer one thing it turns out to be something else, isn't the most ethical act in terms of being upfront, its not illegal technically but its been known to sprout class action lawsuits. That's the business of sales sometimes. And yeah its happened in movies too, and it pissed people off as well then too. I think Brad Pitt was billed in a movie and despite trailers and posters, was only in like 5 minutes of it. Or that fairly tale movie "Bridges of something" that was advertised as a whimsical family movie but turned out to be extremely depressing and left people crying because some little girl died LOL. Or that terrible FF7 movie (and I'm a car guy! 02' Subie Bugeye) that supposedly had the Rock in it... Yeah he was in the first 5 minutes and the last 15 and sprinkled in the middle inside a hospital bed. So any Rock fans got a little shorted, but that could have been due to the reshoots following Walker's death. But I digress...

I was using this here as just a way to make a point, not actually calling Marvel anything. I did say marketing did their job. And uhh, for lack of better words... Duh, a lot of people got burned. Anyone who bought this hoping it would be Gambit as it was aggressively advertised as, got burned. I don't follow this book and bought it because they said my favorite character would be a part of it. So bravo to them. Again, I give them credit for selling some books at the expense of fan expectation.

There was no "warning" beyond some snitch who got the book early a night before and told the internet "its not Gambit". The only warning anyone could have taken to heart that something negative may happen was using lessons from the past. In which case we should stop reading altogether, something a lot of people here said they had done already. I read one book, the Ultimates. I came over and picked up UA for one reason. Marvel didn't give anyone a heads up LOL.

I remember Brevoort saying something about X-Men fans specifically but I don't see how that translates to "Gambit fans beware, ignore the cover, solicitations and mass of interview questions about him!". Marvel didn't give warnings, one person said something ambiguous. Only clue we had was their track record. Sometimes I think we forget that we aren't the normal fans. We have direct links to the industry. We read insider interviews and solicitations that someone who just goes into a store once a month or opens there comic app, don't. I'd say less than 10% of the readership has a CBR account, heck I'm the "hardcore fan" and didn't have one until last year LOL!

Purp:  I also remember Duggan saying along the lines of "some fans aren't going to be happy" purposely not specifying what fans (which makes sense, he never gave away any details). It led to a lot of us talking about it here and CBR. It was even part of my dialogue with him via Twitter. I'll try to find it for you Purp

To end defending my opinion... I'm starting to think you guys assumed i was talking about you when I said "some people got a kick out of it". Sorry if you felt I was pointing a finger, but there were more then a few folk on CBR that really liked the twist, mostly because they didn't want to see Gambit in the book or just thought it was funny (laughing at Gambit fans) in a "nah nah nah-nah-nah" kind of way. So... some people did get a kick out of it.

[DonPriceTag]

Speaking of past history... It got me thinking. You guys don't think the next time we see Gambit, he'll have to be "rescued" do you? I mean the last couple times he "returned" it involved him kind of screwin the pooch. First in X-Factor where Wolverine basically makes him look like a clown then in Storm's solo. No matter how much fun that was, it was him asking her for help stealing something and needing to be saved a couple times as if he wasn't capable. I think Duggan made it clear that he'll be using Gambit again some time down the line. I hate if that was his entrance in AN Marvel. Being a damsel.

[Nekobaghira]

I don't want him to have to be rescued, that would be very disappointing for me. He's not a damsel in distress.

The only comic I'm currently buying is Superman and Wonder Woman, and the amount of time Superman has been a damsel is starting to rub me the wrong way. From time to time, okay - but when its all you get storywise, I'll pass.

I would like for Gambit to be doing his own thing, whatever that may be.

I'm not sure how "clear" Duggan was - how much of it was just bs, blowing smoke as it were. The number of times a writer has said "they'll use Gambit" and "he's got a pivotal role" or whatever words that leads to possible use to be disappointed is pretty darn large by now.

I think I'd like a version of Gambit the Collector as the run in type role. He's taking something, perhaps the UA squad will not want him to have it - a little tension as to who ends up with item, I would want Gambit to do the right thing.

[DonPriceTag]

I think I'd like a version of Gambit the Collector as the run in type role. He's taking something, perhaps the UA squad will not want him to have it - a little tension as to who ends up with item, I would want Gambit to do the right thing.

I always wondered what would have happened if Gambit's solo kept going and he kept stealing things from people, insulting royalty, crashing parties and pissing off international organizations, leading to the Avengers actually coming after him. I would have loved him playing cat and mouse with Hawkeye and/or Black Widow, maybe Spider Woman... I bring up those three because I dont see the likes of Thor, Cap or Iron Man going after him, or even being able to catch him while he's in his element.

[Spoonz]

I think at this point I just want Gambit to be a thief again.  Just bring back the anti-hero.  Let him run with the Avengers or X-Men or whatever but let him have his own agenda. 

Wishful thinking, I know. 

[purplevit]

Purp:  I also remember Duggan saying along the lines of "some fans aren't going to be happy" purposely not specifying what fans (which makes sense, he never gave away any details). It led to a lot of us talking about it here and CBR. It was even part of my dialogue with him via Twitter. I'll try to find it for you Purp

Oh, I beleve you
Maybe I missed it.

I agree with Don.

As for me the worst part of all this was that line on the cover "Gambit makes his move".

[Nekobaghira]

I think at this point I just want Gambit to be a thief again.  Just bring back the anti-hero.  Let him run with the Avengers or X-Men or whatever but let him have his own agenda. 

Wishful thinking, I know. 

I would be absolutely fine with this - he was always an anti-hero to me. I don't need him to be like a Superman or anything. Use his backstory, loads of stories that could be told with his background. And it doesn't even need to get into guilds either. He's always worked best with his own agenda.