Author Topic: Gambit Watch  (Read 975939 times)

Offline bark_no_byte

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1320 on: January 08, 2018, 02:12:06 PM »
The Syfy article just has stills from XTAS--I don't trust their judgement & won't bother reading.


It's a lot of "This is why Gambit is a creep/bad person" but it's usually something taken out of context or just false

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1321 on: January 08, 2018, 02:26:25 PM »
Re: Creepy Gambit articles

Which is why when writers like Wilson and KT makes Gambit "chasing" women and do it such a way that it fails in the humor depart or romantic dept adds to this silly comments from these places. And why some of us who got upset with #1 of R&G. It's just bad and doesn't work. IMO
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 02:31:56 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline bark_no_byte

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1322 on: January 08, 2018, 02:43:46 PM »
Re: Creepy Gambit articles

Which is why when writers like Wilson and KT makes Gambit "chasing" women and do it such a way that it fails in the humor depart or romantic dept adds to this silly comments from these places. And why some of us who got upset with #1 of R&G. It's just bad and doesn't work. IMO


That's a good point. I'm hoping that KT is using this side of Gambit so she can kind of strip it eventually and get him to the place by the end of the mini where he's not like that anymore. You can still make him a womanizer without having some of the over-aggressive behavior he/the writer uses for "lols"

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1323 on: January 08, 2018, 03:18:59 PM »
Re: Creepy Gambit articles

Which is why when writers like Wilson and KT makes Gambit "chasing" women and do it such a way that it fails in the humor depart or romantic dept adds to this silly comments from these places. And why some of us who got upset with #1 of R&G. It's just bad and doesn't work. IMO


Well if we're bringing up the book, he's got way more positive reviews from almost every main stream geek culture website and reviewer. Even diversity and comics who personally dislikes KT. But that's not about Gambit but the book he's 50% part of. I actually see some of the slight as reverse hate. People not like seeing him get good publicity so they are just petty and throwing out random venom in an attempt to offset. And c'mon. He's not chasing women. He's chasing "A" woman, which would be the opposite of sleazy, isn't it?


How dare that sleaze ball try to be committed to one woman! :P


But I wasn't talking about the mini. There's a article up on CBR right now. The author just trashes just about everyone, and lays it on thick with Gambit. Who ever this Mason person is, it seems they've only sparingly read anything over the past 10 years.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1324 on: January 08, 2018, 04:36:33 PM »
Well if we're bringing up the book, ... And c'mon. He's not chasing women. He's chasing "A" woman, which would be the opposite of sleazy, isn't it?

How dare that sleaze ball try to be committed to one woman! :P

It's not that its one woman that he's chasing, its the number of times the one woman's various ways of saying "no" is not listened to by him.

Adds to the creep factor regardless and can be pointed to as in a book where the "creepy" behavior occurred.  Views being different, some will see it that way, others will not. 

Anyway, we don't need to go more rounds on it.  :P I don't care anymore - LOL
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:51:39 PM by Nekobaghira »

Offline Miss Misery

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1325 on: January 08, 2018, 04:38:53 PM »

Well if we're bringing up the book, he's got way more positive reviews from almost every main stream geek culture website and reviewer. Even diversity and comics who personally dislikes KT. But that's not about Gambit but the book he's 50% part of. I actually see some of the slight as reverse hate. People not like seeing him get good publicity so they are just petty and throwing out random venom in an attempt to offset. And c'mon. He's not chasing women. He's chasing "A" woman, which would be the opposite of sleazy, isn't it?


How dare that sleaze ball try to be committed to one woman! :P


But I wasn't talking about the mini. There's a article up on CBR right now. The author just trashes just about everyone, and lays it on thick with Gambit. Who ever this Mason person is, it seems they've only sparingly read anything over the past 10 years.

I saw that Diversity and Comics video yesterday. He made kind of a big deal about how it was a heterosexual romance, which...seemed odd, as I didn't realize comics were lacking in that all of a sudden.

I think the issue here is not how many women, but the "chasing" part. And that the person in that book is pretty clear about not being interested...

And, no, they don't do research. What they do is go off their vague memories of the '90s, and look at out-of-context scans and info they find online.
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Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1326 on: January 08, 2018, 08:00:27 PM »
Well Marvel has systematically separated all their long standing relationships and instead has characters just hooking up with each other all over the place. The only ones that seem have survived their culling are no longer in our reality (Sue and Reed) or have other check boxes ticked like bi-racial and/or homosexual, and when was the last time you even saw Northstar..? I really like Northstar dangit. He's more hung up on the last part, but I have noticed this deep entrenched hook-up culture throughout Marvel. They say it started around the time Quesada was getting a divorce from his wife. Something along the lines of "people can't relate". It works for some characters but is completely out of character for others and looks to be pandering.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 08:03:47 PM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Online anya

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1327 on: January 08, 2018, 08:23:08 PM »
I don't watch that guy, but Marvel has systematically wiped their long term couples, I will agree with that.


About Gambit 'harassing' rogue because she's clearly not interested... that second part just isn't true. The mini where some are complaining about was not trying to show that. And even before that in other  titles it wasn't true. In UA, she was hitting on fake/ RSgambit, and she told him that. Sure Dugan was only writing that to troll the Gambit fans, but it was still there. In Astonishing, on the astral plane, she didn't turn him down, she said I'm not sure if I can take getting my heart broken again, but ok, then we'll save the day, but then Xavier swiped her away.


In the mini, when they wind up on the floor of the danger room, she literally stays there underneath with her arm around him while pixie and Betsy talk about them, when kitty is talking about the mission, she says they need a couple, and rogue says that they are in flux, not over and she's moved on and not interested any more. And again on the beach, she's not sure if they can fix their relationship, not she's not interested.


If you don't like that because you think he should be done with her nonsense, fine, that's a valid opinion. But you don't need to agree with the haters that he's being a creep, going after a girl whose not interested. She shown that she's 'interested' but then gets cold feet, not the same thing.

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1328 on: January 08, 2018, 11:45:13 PM »
Well yes we know KT wasn't trying to show him harassing her but it certainly qualifies as harassment.  They are at work and he is making unwelcome advances towards her.  Pretty textbook case really.

This isn't the 90s where you kind of of just ignore it because Rogue gives us some hint she is interested.  Even when Gambit says he is carrying the baggage alone, it is providing a clear hint that Rogue has shown no interest in Gambit's unwelcome advances.


So you are pretty much left with ignoring the definition of harassment to excuse the fact it's one of your favorite characters doing it.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:47:43 PM by remydat »
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline Nekobaghira

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1329 on: January 09, 2018, 08:12:07 AM »
Writers pick and choose the continuity they want to use and ignore the rest. Fans do that too, again no biggie.  LOL Its not like continuity matters in the long run anyway.  :P
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:51:23 AM by Nekobaghira »

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1330 on: January 09, 2018, 09:11:30 AM »
Here's what doesn't make sense to me about all this and I've made note not to challenge anyone because I didn't see the point you both seems fairly dug in... I'm not trying to change your minds but now it seems you guys asserting something else I don't really think is fair as we all are fans on equal grounds.


It comes down to writing. This aversion you two have isn't about this book. What happened in this book is mild and despite what actually occurred there's this push back. You've made it obvious because you've said it. You either don't like the Rogue character or don't like the pairing. That's cool. I really don't like Fantomex or Kitty. Most of the reasons I don't is because the character(s) was built up (or not) to be a certain way I don't agree with. But you know what? If it was written out and explained properly I can say things like; "I can see Fantomex even next to Gambit in a buddy-thief cop book or a team book" and " I could have bought Kitty being a leader if it's shown how she became that".


Insinuating that because we can read a story without dismissing outright because we don't agree with it in a way is insulting. No one here was into the idea of them being "insta-together", and it's not even a guarantee that they will be by the end of this book. You talk about ignoring continuity... If you read any of this book you know that's not what KT has done. The separation comes in the interpretation of said continuity. Bending it one way, is no different than bending it in another. But that's not your beefs. Standing on the grounds "If this happened to me I wouldn't want to be around", well you shouldn't compare yourself to a fictional character in a sci-fi soap opera written by two dozen authors of varying talent and experience. What happened here wasn't all that serious... And sadly not all that dissimilar from what we've been given more often than not. Because Gambit seems to be more into it than Rogue doesn't mean she isn't. Throughout the whole book at least from the Sentinel deletion back Rogue was her normal "I don't know"-self but hardly opposed to it. Again, it can be sent to either side but make one more right than the other.


Rogue hasn't been some saint and due to writing habits she's treated Gambit pretty bad. That's continuity. And it's perfectly logical and natural to look at that and hold it up, but at the same time to act as if it can't e corrected (which might not be the case by the end) is as short sighted as ignoring it.


Don't add any emotions to this post, please. Believe me I'm just writing, I'm not attached to either way of thinking other than "open". I could have just gone on but I like conversation.
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1331 on: January 09, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
Don, we have had this argument before.  It is sexual harassment as defined by the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm

Did Gambit make repeated unwanted sexual advances?  The answer to that question is yes.  Open and shut.  It may not be as sinister or harmful as some of the stuff we are seeing because of #metoo but it clearly fits the definition.  If I saw Gambit doing this at my work, I would as a Director be duty bound to intervene and if I didn't I could be reprimanded or fired and I would expose my company to a lawsuit. 

So this has nothing to do with opinion or with whether I like Rogue or Romy.  It has to do with the legal definition of the word.  I am not telling anyone to not like the book nor am I telling you to get worked up by this.  It's a comic afterall.  I am telling you that by the legal definition of the word, what KT depicted in the book is sexual harassment.  That is all.  How you respond to that is up to year and I don't think enjoying it makes you wrong.  I simply don't think we should reinvent what words mean just to defend our favorite characters.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 09:38:42 AM by remydat »
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Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1332 on: January 09, 2018, 09:46:01 AM »
Actually we didn't argue you made the point and I bowed out because I thought it was silly. You think I'm ignoring "harassment" and I think your grasping at straws in an attempt to make a soft point. Im not defending anything because I didn't see that remotely the same way you did. If you're going to repeat this for the 3rd time... Again I'm out of the conversation. You can have it. That's as ridiculous as someone saying Longshot rapes every woman he's been with because he manipulates "luck" and probability. I guess you can say the same thing about Domino and Star Fox (not luck powers). Cheers.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 09:49:30 AM by DonPriceTag »
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Offline remydat

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1333 on: January 09, 2018, 10:07:47 AM »
Don,

All you keep doing is running away from the discussion.  You say I am being silly or grasping at straws but you have yet to take the definition of the word and explain how it doesn't fit these circumstances.

What I see in the comic is a guy purposefully putting himself in an uncomfortable position with his X while at work.  He ends up on top of her and clearly makes an advance.  Rogue responds by slapping/pushing him away and leaving the room.  (Unwanted advance no 1)  This guy then follows her and surprises Rogue coming up behind her.  He does this by putting his arms on her shoulders.  Rogue responds by walking away from him. (Unwanted advance no 2).  Rogue then meets with Kitty. When Kitty tells her of the plan, she clearly says No.  Kitty then tries to shame her into doing the mission which succeeds.  For the rest of the story Gambit keeps trying to get her to agree to rekindle their relationship and Rogue continually tries to shoot him down nicely.  (Unwanted sexual advance 3).

What is silly or grasping at straws about the above?

I don't have a problem if you don't want to discuss but you are the one that keeps making comments but then running away whenever I logically explain my position using the actual definition of the word.  It is like you are channelling your inner Rogue and just running from anything that makes you uncomfortable.  And before you pitch a fit just remember you are the one saying my argument is silly despite providing zero logic for that claim so me noting you are running from the argument again is fair game.  I think you need to make up your mind as to whether you want to discuss or not as I have done nothing but civilly discuss things.  Something isn't silly just because you don't like it.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 10:14:02 AM by remydat »
"Let me go first Lorna.  I"m their freaking king!"

Offline DonPriceTag

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Re: Gambit Watch
« Reply #1334 on: January 09, 2018, 02:19:59 PM »
Yep, that's it. You got me, bucko. Read me like a book. I'm in awe of your analytical abilities.  ;)
Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony